1

pchs!

The Daily Bleed's Anarchist Timeline...
anarchist chronology, anarchist time line

2500+ Dates & Events

Use 'em or lose 'em...

Selected from the Daily Bleed Calendar of over 21,000 events, this anarchist timeline is updated a few times a year as new material is added or old materials reworked & corrections made.

http://recollectionbooks.com/bleed/indexTimeline.htm

yesshh!

eat my dust losers

ImPeaches, gang!

Peace

When it comes to the subject of "anarchy and organized society,"

you are full of shit, akaka.

jesus is top of the totem pole

(deal with it, whiney heathens)

...like peaches and cream, don`t you know what I mean?

Posted by: dada at December 14, 2005 09:57 PM

Well, don't get hung up on the pedophillia aspect.

You made a complaint which refered to the Pedophillia and so my comment did as well.

The point is lawlessness.

My point is, with no laws to prevent violations of person, society would suffer as a result.

A., of course you may use the "man book love association" or any variation...

I swear to God, if anyone named "Mitt" gets elected president, I'm moving to Ireland.

i want to be an archy

Posted by: dada at December 14, 2005 10:01 PM

Your comment is not really edifying, I'm afraid.

It's simply an opinion.

I would be happy to read any brief explanation of the difference between an anarchic social environment and Anarchy as a political system.

Just one or two sentences, please.

there are jews and there are jews.

and there are jews who have no spiritual positive

charecteristics at all and only use the label

to hide their inhumanity. this last bunch

are joined by an equally hideous group

of greed heads all over the world.

on the human level, jews are at

least as ignorant about

what's happening as

we are. and just

as brainwashed...

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at December 14, 2005 02:41 PM

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at December 14, 2005 09:57 PM

What's with all of the claptrap, SJ. Why don't you get off of the Secret Jewish Banker Conspiracy bullshit? It is demeaning, and harmful to the progressive movement.

no extraneous posts please, meg

Malloy's got a cold.

well leah i see yer new here.

welcome to the bloggie.

you wanna discuss

this with me?

PEACHES FOR THE HUNGRY CAMPAIGN

===================================================

The number of hungry and food insecure Americans was over 38 million in 2004. This number included over 13 million children (approx. 19% of all children in the U.S.).

Overall, households with children experience food insecurity at more than double the rate for households without children.

Are there more households dealing with hunger this year as a result of Katrina?

Will there be more next year if Congress cuts funding for food stamps?

=============================================================

To take action:

http://www.chn.org/takeaction/index.html

Bush backs Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rove

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush offered strong endorsements on Wednesday to two architects of the Iraq war, Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney, and said he was as close as ever to top political adviser Karl Rove despite his role in the CIA leak case.

Rebuffing Democratic calls for a shake-up over Iraq war strategy and speculation about rifts within the White House, Bush said he had no intention of removing Rumsfeld as defense secretary, crediting him with doing a "heck of a job." Rumsfeld and the vice president, Cheney, have been frequently accused by critics of pushing the war on false pretenses.

In an interview with Fox News, Bush said his relationship with Cheney had "only gotten better," and he remained "very close" to Rove, who could face charges in the criminal investigation into the leak of CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity.

"We're still as close as we've ever been," Bush said of Rove, brushing aside reports he was angry at his deputy chief of staff, who initially denied any role in the Plame leak. "We've been through a lot. You know, when we look back at the presidency and my time in politics, no question that Karl had a lot to do with me getting here, and I value his friendship."

Bush also said he hoped indicted Texas Republican Rep. Tom DeLay would regain his post as House of Representatives majority leader. But Bush added, "I don't know whether I can expect that."

Bush's words of praise for Rumsfeld were similar to those he used to describe Michael Brown, when Brown, then head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, faced criticism for the slow federal response to Hurricane Katrina.

Bush said of Rumsfeld, "He's conducted two wars and at the same time has helped transform our military from a military that was constructed for, you know, the post-Cold War to one that is going to be constructed to fight terrorism."

Asked if Rumsfeld would stay in the administration until the end of his second term, Bush said: "Yes. Well, (the) end

Novak: Bush knows leaker

"...laws to prevent violations of person"

How do laws prevent anything? Sincere question. Most folks I know have learned not to steal and hit and destroy things before they understand there are legal consequences suffered by folks caught doing these things. Their behaviour usually doesn't change with knowledge of laws, they just become more careful about timing and such.

Rustle, anarchy the way you mean it is actually capitalism in its worst form. Wolves preying on each other.

Anarchy as a social environment and political system is the natural state of human relations. Voluntary interaction.

Lawlessness is a theory. In reality, every system obeys laws.

Now, I've given you one or two sentences, against my feeling that you can't talk about things like this in TV style soundbytes, it leaves to much room for misunderstanding. I think it would be better if you learned about what it is you are criticizing.

It would make your opinion mean something.

"...doesn't change [I should have typed] much"

Sometimes it's best just to let statements hang out there on their own...

eya catchoo

evening!

G'evening to you, Jim :)

">Dems Ask for Probe of Oil Exec Testimony

Dems Ask for Probe of Oil Exec Testimony

Posted by: dada at December 14, 2005 10:18 PM

No. None of that is sensible.

I think you know it.

You have never resolved the problems which Anarchy creats for society.

It is pure drivel.

Ok, now call me bad names again.

That's a very convicing argument, too.

without the Patriot act

they can't enslave us "legally"

actually it's one more incremental

step towards real fascism and stormtroopers.

Many great intelligent people have written and spoken about it and taken action, internationally and for a hundred years. Anarchy is organized.

Rustle isn't buying it. He wants you to prove it to him. You have one or two sentences to make your case.

Malloy has lately been refering to Bush as "Chuckle Nuts"...

For some reason, maybe the matter-of-fact tone that he uses when he calls him this, just fucking cracks me up!

Sometimes it's best just to let statements hang out there on their own...

...but most times it's better to correct an inaccuracy before it snowballs. Ounce of prevention...

(we've allready got the "secret police")

You can dismiss it if you like, Rustle.

You asked for a few sentences, and then you reject them out of hand.

There is no convincing you, you will either educate yourself, or not.

Posted by: dada at December 14, 2005 10:28 PM

Hey, take a whole paragraph.

Take two.

How do we prevent Enron, Bu$hCo Inc and Halliburton from taking over the world without laws?

They've about done it with them. The laws are the only thing holding them back.

I don't see why you must harrangue on this topic.

I said earlier that this argument is indefensible and I think you know it.

I time I will tire of pointing out the flaws in this Anarchy of yours and you won't have to worry about trying to explain it any more.

"...but most times it's better to correct an inaccuracy before it snowballs. Ounce of prevention..."

yup, you bet it is!

spoken like an experienced professional!

that "before it snowballs" aspect applies on every level.

Posted by: dada at December 14, 2005 10:31 PM

No offence intended, but you may use Akaka.

I can't remember a time without "secret police." The first ones I was aware of were "Santa Claus" and "God." They are watching, watching, watching and making lists and you will eventually suffer whether you are aware or not! Oy!

ADMINISTRATION PREVENTING STATES FROM ADJUSTING FOOD STAMP BENEFITS TO REFLECT IMPACT OF HIGHER HOME HEATING COSTS ON FOOD BUDGETS

=========================================================

The Administration announced yesterday that it will not allow states to update their food stamp benefit levels now to reflect the higher home heating costs that will leave low-income households with less money for food this winter, a new Center analysis explains.

As a result, states will effectively be forced to base this winter's food stamp benefit levels on last winter's heating bills. The level of food stamp benefits a household receives is based on the amount of money it is assumed to have available to purchase food.

All state Standard Utility Allowances must be approved by USDA.

In the past two months, five states - Kansas, Maine, New York, South Carolina, and Virginia - have asked USDA for permission to adjust their Standard Utility Allowance to reflect increases in heating costs the Department of Energy has projected for this winter. The Administration announced on December 13 that it was denying the five states' requests.

What are the explanations for the decision?

Here is one of the best:

The Administration says it did not anticipate this year's home heating increases when it set its food stamp budget projections last February.

LINK:

http://www.cbpp.org/12-14-05fa-pr.htm

THE PRESIDENT: How many Iraqi citizens have died in this war? I would say 30,000, more or less, have died as a result of the initial incursion and the ongoing violence against Iraqis. We've lost about 2,140 of our own troops in Iraq. Yes.

QUESTION: Mr. President, thank you --

THE [scum-bag] PRESIDENT: I'll repeat the question. If I don't like it, I'll make it up. (Laughter and applause.)

SOURCE: david sirota (via: malloy)

Posted by: dada at December 14, 2005 10:31 PM

I didn't say ANY two sentences, I said a brief statement which resolves the inherent contradictions between a state of Anarchy and Anarchy as a political system.

The sentences you provided do not do that.

As far as I'm concerned you don't have to discuss this topic further with me.

Feel free if you must.

"You have never resolved the problems which Anarchy creats for society."

Society is a work in progress

"It is pure drivel"

oh, rustle...

Well, i'm sorry, you're right, i don't need to be so negative.

I have some interesting things to post and say about the subject, and not all of them positive about anarchy, and not all of them negative about capitalism. I think it's good to keep an open mind.

But i don't have time right now... perhaps we can re-engage this conversation again sometime in the near future, and hopefully find some common ground. I would like that.

Did Darlenebc, get back to you Sunshine Jim?

"spoken like an experienced professional!"

I think experienced pros understand that inaccuracies that snowball are their best friend. Ask News Corp and PR peeps, not me. I am but a simple cat.

I was just thinking about that same thing...is it worth it to me to "prevent inaccuracies"...but what's innacurate to me is accurate to others. Especially in the case of a label like Anarchism...which, among other things, to me is not allowing oneself to follow a label.

Also, as has been said, facts don't get in the way of beliefs, and even facts about what a label means are so debatable...

Which leads to another good reason that this blog exists as it is...Because if I had to make every post under the same nic..then all my words would be filtered via A. I'm a woman. and B. The Anarchism thing.

So, like I said before, it doesn't matter to me what others think about anarchism, (or women...) and I leave it to the people who choose to do so to debate the points...

Posted by: dada at December 14, 2005 10:39 PM

Hey, no offence, you can call me Akaka Bill.

Merry Christmas!

101010101.org...

Hey...Dr. Zimmerman Robert.... :)

Posted by: dada at December 14, 2005 10:39 PM

Whatever.

The first ones I was aware of were "Santa Claus" and "God."

well ya see

the way it appears to me

is that given the choice between

those two as either nefarious spies or voyeaurs

i'd go for the peeping tom everytime.

seems like they're all

jackoffs anyways.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 14, 2005 10:44 PM

Hey, no offence, you can call me Akaka Bill.

"How do we prevent Enron, Bu$hCo Inc and Halliburton from taking over the world without laws?"

But it is law that makes their plunder possible as well.

"They've about done it with them. The laws are the only thing holding them back."

I don't agree. I would say it is fear of the people that is holding them back.

mangled logic doesn't get any more vulgar than this:

bush admits that the intel to invade iraq was "faulty"

& yet the decision to invade was the correct decision

*

hmmm...

Posted by: dada at December 14, 2005 10:49 PM

That's your mistake.

Fear of the law IS fear of the people.

Sound familiar -

Pentagon rolls out stealth PR

WASHINGTON — A $300 million Pentagon psychological warfare operation includes plans for placing pro-American messages in foreign media outlets without disclosing the U.S. government as the source, one of the military officials in charge of the program says.

Run by psychological warfare experts at the U.S. Special Operations Command, the media campaign is being designed to counter terrorist ideology and sway foreign audiences to support American policies. The military wants to fight the information war against al-Qaeda through newspapers, websites, radio, television and "novelty items" such as T-shirts and bumper stickers.

The program will operate throughout the world, including in allied nations and in countries where the United States is not involved in armed conflict.

More -

Posted by: air-ono at December 14, 2005 10:49 PM

Yup, that's right.

Mangled logic doesn't get any more vulgar than this.

ya!

Doc Zimm! popped up!

long time since we read ya.

we were wonderin what you were up to

and missing you as well!

you still here?

bush & co

should be made to ride around in their limos with dead soliders

and then made to dig their graves

Law has class issues. Law can be corrupted.

The people organized are not the same as law.

Have you ever heard the Kissingerism "the illegal we do immediately, the unconstitutional takes a bit longer"?

It's naive to think the law is pure, and is equivalent to the strength of the people

Lenny Bruce had that kind of faith in the law. You know what happened to Lenny, right?

Harold Pinter – Nobel Lecture

Art, Truth & Politics

In 1958 I wrote the following:

'There are no hard distinctions between what is real and what is unreal, nor between what is true and what is false. A thing is not necessarily either true or false; it can be both true and false.'

I believe that these assertions still make sense and do still apply to the exploration of reality through art. So as a writer I stand by them but as a citizen I cannot. As a citizen I must ask: What is true? What is false?

Truth in drama is forever elusive. You never quite find it but the search for it is compulsive.

"we cherish the memory of each...."

"a cherry-ripe, please"

It Takes a Potemkin Village by FRANK RICH

"When a government substitutes propaganda for governing, the Potemkin village is all. Since we don't get honest information from this White House, we must instead, as the Soviets once did, decode our rulers' fictions to discern what's really happening. What we're seeing now is the wheels coming off: As the administration's stagecraft becomes more baroque, its credibility tanks further both at home and abroad. The propaganda techniques may be echt Goebbels, but they increasingly come off as pure Ali G."

"those two as either nefarious spies or voyeaurs

i'd go for the peeping tom everytime."

Um, I didn't know there was a difference! Naive, I reckon. When you put it that way, yes, of course, there's something easier to take about someone who's doing it for fun rather than someone who's "out to get something on you because it's their job." The former is understandable, the latter is just creepy. :(

The right to make law comes from the people.

Corruption may subvert that right through usurped elections.

The answer is a fair, fully functioning democracy.

We have the tools now in our system.

...btw, if you play your cards right and attempt to inform me on the merits of Anarchy as a political system (something I'm doing on my own, since I get precious little from this blog on the topic - I can't help that you are not convincing, nor even CLEAR, in terms of responsivness) I might advocate on it's behalf.

Posted by: air-ono at December 14, 2005 10:49 PM

I posted this earlier...

Posted by: Anonymous at December 14, 2005 02:44 PM

The headline was: Bush Says Iraq War Was Justified Even Though Intelligence Wrong

That was the first thing I saw at the top of news.google.com...by the time I posted it and then refreshed the google screen, that headline was so buried...I mean like suspiciously buried, long gone buried....(not that I'm not always suspicious...but ...)

Yeah..my head exploded yet again at the gall of the fucking Government. (AND the big bankers.. who control it)...

"fear of the law?"

everything is subject to change

and especially the concept of "law" and "money"

theres a few million of them

and billions of us.

6,485,145,201=us

2,000,000=them

thats about

3200 to 1

it's no wonder

they act like fools

they're petrified by the

thought that they'll be caught!

NAME THAT THEORY:

It's called FOUNDER'S EFFECT. That one about isolated populations evolving at an accelerated rate through "inbreeding". The theory is, that as the population does not cross bread with a wider gene-pool, mutations acrete and accumulate in said population.

Manuel

Posted by: dada at December 14, 2005 10:57 PM

...and the answer is?

The abolishment of legal oversight?

It's not even arguable.

So, you must argue the point for some reason other than to be convincing upon that point.

I tire of this again.

Keep fighting the chaotic fight, dada!

Daily Show is on.

'We Do Not Torture' and Other Funny Stories by Frank Rich

"So when you watch the president stand there with a straight face and say, "We do not torture" - a full year and a half after the first photos from Abu Ghraib - you have to wonder how we arrived at this ludicrous moment. The answer is not complicated. When people in power get away with telling bigger and bigger lies, they naturally think they can keep getting away with it. And for a long time, Mr. Bush and his cronies did. Not anymore."

'Never Before!' Our Amnesiac Torture Debate

Scream all you want because no one can hear you and no one is going to save you.

"a brief statement which resolves the inherent contradictions between a state of Anarchy and Anarchy as a political system."

The police are not here to create disorder, they're here to preserve disorder. - Mayor Daley, 1968

Laws: We know what they are, and what they are worth! They are spider webs for the rich and mighty, steel chains for the poor and weak, fishing nets in the hands of government - Pierre Joseph Proudhon

We cannot acknowledge allegience to any human government... Our country is the world, our countrymen are all mankind..." - William Lloyd Garrison

hmm...

Gotta go... take care

peaches

Do we need money?

eya Manuel in Mexico City!

Que Paso ese? welcome to the bloggie!

good post, was trying to remember that term!

MAPS AND CHARTS OF IRAQI OILFIELDS: CHENEY ENERGY TASK FORCE

Later, dada. Always a pleasure to "see" you :)

gooduns dada!

nite kiddoo!

You may say I'm a dreamer.

But I'm not the only one.

Hi Jim,

Yeah. I had to go out so I paused it and am about 70 minutes behind. Mike's coming up. Yeah, gotta love Anthro : þ

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at December 14, 2005 11:13 PM

I didn't see until too late that Jon Benjamin was on...I don't suppose there was any talk about the "This is so fucking great" song that he did?

The one you can hear here..., under Audio Clip.

The nature of man is both to require laws and the writing of them.

This is a natural law.

Sometimes you just don't take the extra step.

Nope, make that like an hour and 50 minutes behind. You also gotta love streaming! Just pause that sukka, and spurt ahead through the commercials!

Money is a means of portability of trade. Try bartering for just your basic living requirements and see how far you get.

Do we need money?

Posted by: Cat Chew

the idea of money is what

can change. the reasons for using it.

and more importantly, who gets the benefit.

"The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing.

The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was every invented.

Banking was conceived in inequity and born in sin.

Bankers own the earth.

Take it away from them but leave them the power to create money, and with a flick of a pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again.

Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in.

But if you want to continue to be the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let bankers continue to create money and control credit."

Sir Josiah Stamp

(president of the Bank of England and the second richest man in Britain in the 1920's)

The most important initial instinct of the most powerful individual or of his organized power structure is, "Divide to conquer, and to keep conquered, keep divided."

-Buckminster Fuller, Critical Path

Abolish Money!

*

"Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in."

*

"Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in."

*

"Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in."

*

"Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in."

*

Posted by: A. at December 14, 2005 11:22 PM

& wot is nobody going to pay prostitutes with!

with rice

with love....

(get real)

"The nature of man is both to require laws and the writing of them.

This is a natural law.

Sometimes you just don't take the extra step.

Posted by: Nobody at December 14, 2005 11:18 PM"

What do you mean? Require laws or just come to an understanding? Natural... I won't even go there!

Which extra step do you mean?

//"Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in."//

oh, yeah

& who will buy me cherry-ripes

The scale of moral developement by population percentage...and these numbers btw are cross cultural...They fluctuate little around thewrold...in effect they're based on something intrinsic to the human condition rather than something cultural or societal...At least on the largest part

Preconventional level: 40% of population falls here.

stage 2: Behave nicely in exchange for future favors.

stage 1: Obey authority

This is the lowest level of moral development...A full 40 percent of the population only restrains their behavior in deference to authority...This authority can be a government and it's laws.

These people have no "personal" constraints from doing wtfever they wish without regard to the harm it does another save for that of the law and it's "consequence".

Conventional Level: 50% of population falls here.

stage 4: Follow rules to maintain social order.

stage 3: Live up to others' expectations.

Again we see the need for "law" in the next even larger portion of the population...At least these people care about what others think of them and try not to be assholes...

Postconventional Level: 10% of population fall here with only 1% making it to stage 6.

stage 6: base personal moral system on abstract principles.

stage 5: Adhere to a social contract when it is valid.

Even in the most advanced stage of moral development you see that the majority relies at least on some part to the a "social contract" with only 1% relying on a self imposed morality...

Out of that 100% of the population we find that maybe 10% are capable of an anarchist society that is not harmful or dog eat dog...and the smallest of minorities capable of doing it to the benefit of all.

So to preach the joys of anarchy is to be either a spoiled child that just can't handle rules and feels suppressed by having to consider the needs of others or just to be simply ignorant of the dark truth that resides within the human animal.

Posted by: Cat Chew at December 14, 2005 11:29 PM

hint: we're a social animal

hint #2: finite resources

hint #3: desires are unlimited

A RELIGIOUS PROTEST LARGELY FROM THE LEFT -

CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIANS SAY FIGHTING CUTS IN POVERTY PROGRAMS IS NOT A PRIORITY

=========================================================

Excerpts from The Washington Post article:

When hundreds of religious activists try to get arrested today to protest cutting programs for the poor, prominent conservatives such as James Dobson, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell will not be among them.

That is a great relief to Republican leaders, who have dismissed the burgeoning protests as the work of liberals.

Jim Wallis, editor of the liberal Christian journal Sojourners and an organizer of today's protest, was not buying it.

Such conservative religious leaders "have agreed to support cutting food stamps for poor people if Republicans support them on judicial nominees," he said. "They are trading the lives of poor people for their agenda. They're being, and this is the worst insult, unbiblical."

Wallis said that as they are led off, they will chant a phrase from Isaiah:

"Woe to you legislators of infamous laws . . . who refuse justice to the unfortunate, who cheat the poor among my people of their rights, who make widows their prey and rob the orphan."

Link:

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=news.display_article&mode=s&NewsID=5094

"Require laws or just come to an understanding?"

Government is humanity getting together to come to an understanding and so are laws. They're supposed to be the rules of the game that we most agree upon are they not?

Anarchists say that it's ok for people to get together and come to these understandings...We've been doing this for centuries untold...but in almost the same breath the anarchists advocate the dissolution of those agreements that were built in the past.

conclusion: competition is the game of life

who gets wot...

the 800lb gorilla!

CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE FOR A MORAL BUDGET

114 religious leaders were arrested in front of the Cannon House Office Building while kneeling in prayer to protest the immoral budget and tax agenda which slashes spending on the poor to finance tax breaks for the rich.

Led by Jim Wallis of Call to Renewal, national faith leaders, clergy and faith-based providers of services to the poor held a press conference.

Many of those present held signs saying:

Budgets are moral documents!

For poor people - ACCESS DENIED!

============================================================

Link to read more and see photos from the protest:

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=action.display&item=051214_arrests

To Lay Me Down

June 28th, 1974 - Boston Garden

(whole show)

why is sport so popular?

because competition thrills us

it's the game

why is gambling so popular?

because risk thrills us

it's adrenalin

we're addicted to the stuff

it's us

it's in our dna

it's not there for fun

it's necessary for survival of our species

conclusion: competition is the game of life

who gets wot...

the 800lb gorilla!

Posted by: air-ono at December 14, 2005 11:35 PM

Anarchists both reject the necessity for competition and the reality of it. Because it's a nasty thing competition and in their hearts they know that it causes harm to some and this is what they're most rejecting more than anything else.

But the logic that if there were no laws then no laws would be broken is just as fallacious as saying if there were no money then everyone would eat.

THe failure to take the next step is the failure to see the unerring consequence of the implementation of any philosophy over the whole rather than te singular.

Take the rules away from the sociopaths and they will remain sociopaths. Take the money away from the sociopaths and they remain sociopaths.

Bush and co are not constrained by rule of law nor consequence of economics...They are as free as any anarchist hopes to be...the end result?

why does a cockroach scurry under the sink

because it's programmed to do it

THE SURVIVAL INSTINCT

-Buckminster Fuller, Critical Path

Posted by: A. at December 14, 2005 11:21 PM

Abolish Money!

Posted by: A. at December 14, 2005 11:22 PM

I like a gal who can cut to the chase. :)

Money is a means of portability of trade. Try bartering for just your basic living requirements and see how far you get.

Posted by: Nobody at December 14, 2005 11:19 PM

Portability of trade in this fashion enables grand theft by non-producers. I have no problem with non-producers like infants. The way we try to starve widowed mothers, and debilitated soldiers and the like, that doesn't seem fair or good. Why do we reward non-producers like Cheney-Bush who suck off an enormous amounts of assets and give us nothing tangible? Ick. But can we get back to a place without money where most of us won't freeze and starve?

hint: we're a social animal

hint #2: finite resources

hint #3: desires are unlimited

Needs are not unlimited, are they? I don't want the world, just your half!

For those Deadheads....I saw the last 2 shows Jerry Garcia did in Chicago (Soldier Field).

I found one of the ticket stubs the other day....

Posted by: Nobody at December 14, 2005 11:42 PM

i'm listening to malloy

& jotting down thoughts

Posted by: Cat Chew at December 14, 2005 11:44 PM

as long as you touch it now & then

: )

I think it's hysterical the way you speak about Anarchists as if we're one thing or one person. I believe you did the same thing with Libertarians.

i just touched it for u

: )

(ewwwwww!)

The fact that you speak like that proves to me that you and I don't have the same understanding about Anarchism, (or anything really), at all.

As far as your little tirade of, Humanity is this percent that and this percent the other...like I said before..talk some shit when you've met all of humanity.

Good Night.

This caller on Malloy sounds like Pierre Bernard, of "Recliner of Rage" fame. I expect he'll start to go off on the newest action figures from the Superman movie.

Libertarians live in a fantasy world....with their "leave the market decide everything, and all will be fine" philosophy. It's dependent upon everyone "doing the right thing", and being honest with one another. That's never going to happen.

But can we get back to a place without money where most of us won't freeze and starve?

Posted by: Cat Chew at December 14, 2005 11:44 PM

No...we can't...But we can work on the fairness issue...As much as the term "redistribution" is maligned it's truly the only answer to a number of problems.

Robin Hood...Take from those that can most afford to give and give it to those on the bottom...We can argue about ways that this can be done into the minutia and it matters not one whit as to the need of it being done.

The only way to make the system equitable is to keep resources recirculating in much te same way nature does.

Imagine a small island inhabited by two kinds of creature...One is predator and one is prey...The eventual conclusion of this system is the predators profit while the prey suffer...The top predator get's large and strong but in the end there is no more prey...and then the predators begin in their hunger to feed off each other...Now...There is a winner to the game..the last one standing on an empty island...

This is the nature of capitalism today...Now apply anarchism to that island and see what happens?...Nothing has changed...

It's just not the answer...Socialism...an even more maligned word by the predatory...that's the only answer to equity...We force ourselves to be equitable...Even those that don't want to...Because frankly if you haven't noticed...A fuck of a lot don't give a shit about anyone else...they jsut want to be the last predator standing on that empty island.

shell has gone to the estrogen room

i'm listening to malloy

& jotting down thoughts

Posted by: air-ono at December 14, 2005 11:46 PM

--

At the same time?

I've judged you too harshly.

A., of course you may use the "man book love association" or any variation...

Posted by: dada at December 14, 2005 10:02 PM

Oh hey thanks...I didn't see that til now...thanks.. :)

Something's bothering me about the show. OK, I may be incurring the wrath of the Blog here:

It seems to me that Sam's become a consumate radio pro. No prob there. And I know Janeane has a necessarily forshortened forum for the time being (I can't wait for those West Wings to air in Mexico!). But I do have an issue to raise with Janeane:

I appreciate her rants. They are informative, and occasionaly wry. But two things bug me, a lot. #1: Janeane was the more experienced (or so it seemed) of the two when the show began, and she treated Sam as a mentor would a sidekick. Problem is, I'd rather listen to a Sam show than a Janeane show these days, but Janeane's attitude towards Sam still sometimes seems condescending and superior. Wrong! #2: Is Janeane a bona-fide Psychologist? I'm bothered by her mis-application of Psych concepts and lingo. I am further bothered that she would (kuddos for the perception) note a pattern of "dysfunction", say "there's gotta be a name for this" and not bother to ask a Prof. or expert. Same goes for a lot of her attributions and ascriptions.

I am a great fan of knowledge, and of dynamic cross-disciplinary interplay. But if I come up with a theory during a discussion, whether I think it to be a blinding jem or a shaky construction, I will, at least, go check! For future reference. Janeane doesn't seem interested in cross-checking her conclusions, and insists on repeating the same mistakes on air... this is how pop-culture accumulates erroneous memes. And that --really-- buggs me.

Sorry Janeane, trying to be constructive here. I hope I succeeded, and that you read this.

As far as your little tirade of, Humanity is this percent that and this percent the other...like I said before..talk some shit when you've met all of humanity.

Good Night.

Posted by: A. at December 14, 2005 11:53 PM

The study that purports those numbers has been repeated over and over and over again worldwide...

And history records the same effects over and over and over...In effect it has met all of humanity...

You're an arrogant self righteous little nincompoop miss hatey hate face.

eya miss goblin...... sure do miss jerry bear soothing our souls.....

So to preach the joys of anarchy is to be either a spoiled child that just can't handle rules and feels suppressed by having to consider the needs of others or just to be simply ignorant of the dark truth that resides within the human animal.

Posted by: Nobody at December 14, 2005 11:31 PM

I don't think most folks who discuss anarchy in a "positive" sense are preaching it or its "joys." You might have empathy and consider the needs of others or you ignore them and do what you want and think what you will. You might feel constrained by your place in your family or community, or you will do whatever you want and then count on folks to like and forgive you after you've been "bad." Some of the people I know who "preach" conservatism are the most lawless, self-satisfying, jack-offs of all. I don't have the range and vocabulary sometimes... Up is down to some folks sometimes, maybe any time it's convenient.

I think it's hysterical the way you speak about Anarchists as if we're one thing or one person. I believe you did the same thing with Libertarians.

Posted by: A. at December 14, 2005 11:50 PM

"The failure to take the next step is the failure to see the unerring consequence of the implementation of any philosophy over the whole rather than the singular."

At what point was I indicting the singular? or the personal?

And for your information anarchism is very much the same by in large part as libertariamsim.

Your ignorance is a burden.

Evening all!

House Panel Subpoenas Rumsfeld on Katrina By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer
49 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - A House committee investigating the government's response to Hurricane Katrina issued a subpoena Wednesday to force Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld to turn over documents but stopped short of sending a similar legal demand to the White House.

The subpoena commands Rumsfeld to produce internal records and communications about the Pentagon's response to the Aug. 29 storm, including efforts to send supplies to victims, stabilize public safety and mobilize active duty forces in the Gulf Coast. It requires the Pentagon to deliver the documents, spanning from Aug. 23 to Sept. 15, from Rumsfeld and eight other top military officials by Dec. 30.

Separately, the Federal Emergency Management Agency said it would comply with a judge's ruling that FEMA keep paying for hotel rooms for hurricane evacuees until Feb. 7. The agency also agreed to extend the program for eligible storm victims who have not been helped by that deadline.

The subpoenas were one focus of a House hearing that was marked by angry barbs between Gov. Kathleen Blanco, D-La., and Republicans who challenged her about why a mandatory evacuation for New Orleans was not ordered until the morning before Katrina hit. Mandatory evacuations were ordered for coastal parishes south and east of New Orleans before then.

The subpoena commands Rumsfeld to produce internal records and communications about the Pentagon's response to the Aug. 29 storm

Posted by: Manuel in Mexico City at December 14, 2005 11:56 PM

janeane is janeane

come unto de globber and unburden your ignorance....

//You're an arrogant self righteous little nincompoop miss hatey hate face.//

whoa!

that's loco talk

: )

"Libertarians live in a fantasy world....with their "leave the market decide everything, and all will be fine""

That is not libertarianism. That is laissez faire, laissez passer capitalism.

//come unto de globber and unburden your ignorance....//

whoa!

demz fightin' words

Congress Cuts Research, Education Spending By ANDREW TAYLOR, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 35 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Congressional Republicans made progress on twin tracks Wednesday toward their end-of-year budget goals, passing a bill freezing or cutting back spending on medical research and education and nearing agreement on cuts to the Medicaid health care program for the poor.

The first measure, a $602 billion bill funding a wide variety of health, education and labor programs, passed the House on a 215-213 vote. It would cut federal aid to education for the first time in a decade, and spread about $1.4 billion in cuts across the departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education.

The separate budget bill is a cornerstone of the Republican agenda in Congress, and the House and Senate continued to struggle to find a way to advance a Senate plan to open the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil exploration.

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., signaled he may try to move the hotly contested oil drilling plan from the budget cut bill to the must-pass defense budget bill, setting up a major confrontation with Democrats and a likely filibuster. But because the bill will also carry new money for hurricane relief and to combat the avian flu, GOP leaders hoped they might be able to jam the measure through.

LINK

broken heart don't feel so bad.....

you ain't got half of what you thought you had.......

Libertarians live in a fantasy world....with their "leave the market decide everything, and all will be fine" philosophy. It's dependent upon everyone "doing the right thing", and being honest with one another. That's never going to happen.

Posted by: Goblin Girl at December 14, 2005 11:54 PM

-----------

Yah, what she said... Totally.

Posted by: Impressed at December 14, 2005 11:56 PM

someone call a para-medic

i've been pinged

Posted by: Cat Chew at December 15, 2005 12:00 AM

Again the application of the philosphy over the whole of society while without regard to it's consequence to the members of that society is no more than being self serving.

The negatives are just too fucking horrible. As animals we lived in a state of anarchy. The first thing that nature did was develop the dictatorship...The alpha male and females...to provide direction...to insure the survival of the species...In all higher animals this rudimentary government exists.

Governemnt is born inside of us.

The question is whether or not we can do better than nature in her crude measures...This requires some abstract societal pressures that we can all agree on...again mans laws come into play.

Posted by: Meg at December 15, 2005 12:05 AM

BAN MEG!

Miss Jerry too. Miss the Dead shows. They weren't always good, but most of them were.

Went to one Phish show. Just not the same. They never had the depth that the Dead had.

"Libertarians live in a fantasy world....with their "leave the market decide everything, and all will be fine""

That is not libertarianism. That is laissez faire, laissez passer capitalism.

Posted by: Cat Chew at December 15, 2005 12:04 AM

in the philosophical singular or the political plurality?

Because after all they are different things.

What works for the one will not more often than not work for the whole.

Agreement remained elusive on changes to Medicare and the leaders of the House and Senate Agriculture Committees were at an impasse over whether to concentrate cuts to farm subsidies in 2006 as proposed by the House or spread them out over five years as the Senate would like.

Republican leaders have sent mixed signals about whether they believe the budget plan can pass before Congress adjourns, but the issue is important to fiscal conservatives eager for the Republican Party to regain its footing on the budget.

"It is absolutely imperative that we stay as long as it takes," said Rep. Mike Pence (news, bio, voting record), R-Ind. "The American people want to see this Congress, this (Republican) majority reassert its commitment to fiscal discipline and limited government."

~~"The American people want to see this Congress, this (Republican) majority reassert its commitment to fiscal discipline and limited government."~~

I think we should bombard Rep. Mike Pence, R (Ind), with emails on what he thinks the American people want.

What say you?

Here, I fixed it for you:

Democrats live in a fantasy world....with their "leave the Government decide everything, and all will be fine" philosophy. It's dependent upon our politicians "doing the right thing", and being honest with one another. That's never going to happen.

Posted by: Goblin Girl at December 14, 2005 11:54 PM

:p

Posted by: ¹³Ъзй at December 15, 2005 12:05 AM

Who does?

Government of the people, by the people and for the people...

of the people - liberalism

by the people - democracy

for the people - socialism

Any questions?

☼☼ thursday, rhythmic moon 03 ~ white crystal world-bridger ☼☼

~ Nine in the third place means: ~

No plain not followed by a slope.

No going not followed by a return.

He who remains persevering in danger

Is without blame.

Do not complain about this truth;

Enjoy the good fortune you still possess.

Who does?

Posted by: Akaka Bill at December 15, 2005 12:12 AM

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

everyone.....

Any questions?

Posted by: Nobody at December 15, 2005 12:13 AM

yes,

as a matter of fact, i have one (i always have one)

(& it's always the same one....)

has ethel merman left the show

has ethel merman left the show

Posted by: air-ono at December 15, 2005 12:17 AM

ethel.... eugene.... freakin utah mermans......

//Government of the people, by the people and for the people...

of the people - liberalism

by the people - democracy

for the people - socialism

Any questions?
//

Yes. How many other Governmental systems have espoused the same motto? So are you saying the Democrats don't play to special interests? Or are saying the special interests are "the people" as well, as long as they are pushing your agenda? Who in your opinion is the people, and who isn't?

oh wait..... that's mormons....

i'm a people....

Posted by: ¹³Ъзй at December 15, 2005 12:18 AM

*tsk-tsk*

Just watched Airplane! With Ethel Merman is a very funny cameo....

mormons can kiss my arse

Who in your opinion is the people, and who isn't?

Posted by: Thoth at December 15, 2005 12:18 AM

they all are...

but in the orignal sense...

of the people...liberalism was just that "of the people" and not of the monied aristocracy as the liberal movement was founded upon.

Marie Antoinette?...To some that uprising was the very birth of the liberal movement.

I find it slightly amusing the you equate "democrats" with liberalism during a time that you can plainly see that they are not by in large part liberal at all.

"Special interests" Would you like to define that term first? For all intents and purposes you yourself would fall under the definition of "special interest"...

Although you haven't said it outright I'll take a guess and say that what you really mean is that the democrats also kow tow to monied interests...the new aristocracy so to speak...and in this the very proof that they have indeed abandonned liberalism...for the most part...it sucks to over generalize and stereotype ya know.

don't lie to me, g-girl

i'm a people....

Posted by: ¹³Ъзй at December 15, 2005 12:19 AM

Do you need people?? Cuz if so .. you are one of the luckiest people in the world! ; D - LOL!

"in the philosophical singular or the political plurality?"

Huh? I was answering a simple statement and trying to counter it. If you want to expand it, and get a reasonable argument, you have to be a bit more specific. That's a bit too vague and encompassing. It's intriguing and should provoke dialogue some places and some time, but not here and not tonight and not with me. Pretty interesting and expanding question, though...

BTW, Does socialism depend on folks having it enforced?

"How many other Governmental systems have espoused the same motto?"

A few...and fewer have actually lived up to that social contract...It seems that the totalitarians are quite adept at manipulating any political system to turn it into the power structure that they would abuse.

"The only way to make the system equitable is to keep resources recirculating in much te same way nature does."

Yupper, absolutely right...

the main reason possesiveness and greed are insane.

air-ono,

I know, but that's the essense of what bugs me! She's got it... she's just lazy about it. About the supercilliousness of her attitude, well, maybe that's a Universal constant, as I belive you imply... but Janeane believes in evolution, and continuing knowledge, as I've heard her say myriad times.

Janeane, ever try meditation? Sorry to presume, but I believe you'd find it an astounding tool.

Posted by: La Belle Dames San Regret at December 15, 2005 12:26 AM

*chuckles*

*

(god loves you)

BTW, Does socialism depend on folks having it enforced?

Posted by: Cat Chew at December 15, 2005 12:27 AM

unfortunately this is the reality that we live with...too many of the kids on te playground are very much like those in power right now and would abuse the rest of us with a gleeful look in their eye...

and I limit my assertion for the moment to taxes and redistribution of wealth...Albeit good people will contribute to the common good...bad ones will not and in this the requirement of enforcement.

Posted by: Manuel in Mexico City at December 15, 2005 12:29 AM

ya, it's a problem

but hey, she's got her shortcomings

wot can i say

"It's intriguing and should provoke dialogue some places and some time, but not here and not tonight and not with me."

At your pleasure and disgression my friend.

(god loves you)

Posted by: jesus christ at December 15, 2005 12:30 AM

Ya .. they always say that .. but do they ever call again?? NON!!! Worship one night then *poof* - Gone!! No burning bush! No commandments .. Nothing!

p.s. it is afterall, personality based radio

It seems that the totalitarians are quite adept at manipulating any political system to turn it into the power structure that they would abuse.

Posted by: Nobody at December 15, 2005 12:28 AM

to further this I would add that at some point we really need to devise a way to keep them from subverting the will of the people to their own ends...

My simplest proposal would be to take personal gain out of the picture for anyone that would take up government...

The argument here was one presented by the republicans when fighting against camapign finance and lobbying reforms...If there was no money in it than you would not attract the "best" people...Which of course turns reality on it's head when we are in fact with our present system attracting all of the worst people.

Miguel en la ciudad de Mexico.....your 12:29 AM post is very thoughtful. Janeane has a brilliant mind, but it often goes all over the place.

Posted by: La Belle Dames San Regret at December 15, 2005 12:33 AM

hey, i'm only the messenger

: )

//Posted by: Nobody at December 15, 2005 12:26 AM//

Sorry, I've got some distractions here.

Nobs, did you say me say Liberal, or did you see me state Democrat?

Are you putting words in my posts that aren't there, and why? If you can't argue a point, do you always change what the poster said to help in your arguement? Let me see what else you posted?

Janeane has a brilliant mind, but it often goes all over the place.

Posted by: Goblin Girl at December 15, 2005 12:36 AM

She also disparages her own lack of focus...But to encompass the whole one must often step back from the minutia and point out the many bright or dark spots that outline such a whole.

But what would I know?

hey, i'm only the messenger

: )

Posted by: jesus christ at December 15, 2005 12:37 AM

I'm just sayin' ... you gotta watch out with dieties .. they think they are God or something! ; )

"keep resources recirculating in much te same way nature does"

I second Sunshine Jim!

It weirds me out that our aggregate human vibe seems to be so at odds with the simple cascading flow of the very nature that surrounds us.

Our ability to change that flow defines us, in a sense. But it's like Judo, or a pulley or a lever, you want to use what forces are already present. To capriciously defy them, when it is out of pure fuck youedness, is lamentable.

I used to live in the Orient, and there are aspects of their mind-set I desperatly wish we in the West (yes, Mexico especially) would consider and addopt.

"keep resources recirculating in much te same way nature does"

I second Sunshine Jim!

It weirds me out that our aggregate human vibe seems to be so at odds with the simple cascading flow of the very nature that surrounds us.

Our ability to change that flow defines us, in a sense. But it's like Judo, or a pulley or a lever, you want to use what forces are already present. To capriciously defy them, when it is out of pure fuck youedness, is lamentable.

I used to live in the Orient, and there are aspects of their mind-set I desperatly wish we in the West (yes, Mexico especially) would consider and adopt.

Do you want me to not post here and leave this blog?

That's honestly what it feels like.

Sorry, I've got some distractions here.

Nobs, did you say me say Liberal, or did you see me state Democrat?

Are you putting words in my posts that aren't there, and why? If you can't argue a point, do you always change what the poster said to help in your arguement? Let me see what else you posted?

Posted by: Thoth at December 15, 2005 12:38 AM

Liberal does not mean democrat...I am however a left leaning liberal democrat...I believe that I am what my party should be but isn't...

I defend the democrats on expediency...I will not see the whole destroyed by the failure of the few that merely call themselves democrats but refuse to walk the walk.

"Are you putting words in my posts that aren't there, and why? If you can't argue a point, do you always change what the poster said to help in your arguement? Let me see what else you posted?"

Read what I posted and pay attention that I did no such thing. If you believe that have repost the statement tat you disagree with and I'll attempt to clarify...

And never doubt my ability to argue my own points.

Kubrick was all over the place as well, at least when he talked to others. He go from one topic to another in rapid fire fashion, similar to what Janeane does.

My sister just bought me another Kubrick book. Watched Full Metal Jacket again the other night.

Posted by: La Belle Dames San Regret at December 15, 2005 12:39 AM

yeah, well

ignore them

*

(i am the way) ~ (to make hay)

A.

you're a worthy contributor...... don't let a nobody run you off..... please......

Posted by: A. at December 15, 2005 12:43 AM

speaking as a blog-cockroach

i like gazing up ur skirt

: )

Do you want me to not post here and leave this blog?

That's honestly what it feels like.

Posted by: A. at December 15, 2005 12:43 AM

honestly?

I could give a fuck less...one way or another.

That's anarchy babe...

Hmmm. Actually the rest of what you said is pretty on base. Now what is your arguement exactly with Libertarians? You keep insinuating that we're anarchists. To me that's like when wedo comes over here calling people Commies. You and I both know that is not true of the people here, and I know it's not true of the Libertarian party. As far as I've seen from all the parties, the Libertarians are the ones who propose best, the ideals of true liberty for all.

sometimes when u're asleep

i like peering into ur ear

& watching ur brain work

: )

(it's really cool)

"don't let a nobody run you off"

Is this your perception?

I am not allowed to voice my displeasure or a counter thought without being accused as "running someone off"?

Oh my...my words have so much power don't they...I dominate and control with the mere flexing my keyboard...

Let's not forget that miss hatey hate face started on me and not the reverse...

But the rules of what is and is not appropriate don't apply evenly do they?

//I will not see the whole destroyed by the failure of the few that merely call themselves democrats but refuse to walk the walk.//

The few? Was it the "few", of the Democrats who went along with Bush on the Iraq war? Was it the "few" who helped the Patriot act get passed? Was it the "few" that voted against immediate withdrawel from Bush's Iraq adventure? Maybe me and you have a different definition of what "the few" means?

Hmmm. Actually the rest of what you said is pretty on base. Now what is your arguement exactly with Libertarians? You keep insinuating that we're anarchists. To me that's like when wedo comes over here calling people Commies. You and I both know that is not true of the people here, and I know it's not true of the Libertarian party. As far as I've seen from all the parties, the Libertarians are the ones who propose best, the ideals of true liberty for all.

Posted by: Thoth at December 15, 2005 12:47 AM

Libertarians as a party? As a political philosophy of government or a personal philosphy?

I'll discuss any of the above but for clarity you must specify which because when I jump the shit of the one I don't want you thinking that it's your personal back that I'm riding.

At your pleasure and disgression my friend.

Posted by: Nobody at December 15, 2005 12:32 AM

That's the only way I ever take things, eh? ;)

Posted by: ¹³Ъзй at December 15, 2005 12:05 AM

Everyone doesn't have half of what they thought they had or was it just poor ol' broken heart?

Here come old flattop he come grooving up slowly

He got joo-joo eyeball he one holy roller

He got hair down to his knee

Got to be a joker he just do what he please

.. yes .. I know I said I wasn't a huge fan .. but somehow this go onto my computer and now it's playing ...

The few? Was it the "few", of the Democrats who went along with Bush on the Iraq war? Was it the "few" who helped the Patriot act get passed? Was it the "few" that voted against immediate withdrawel from Bush's Iraq adventure? Maybe me and you have a different definition of what "the few" means?

Posted by: Thoth at December 15, 2005 12:53 AM

compared to the millions that encompass the people? yes.

But a minor point of contention...the bill that "authorized" Bush to go to war had restrictions before the authority would be granted...

Those restrictions were not met thus authority was never granted by any vote.

The real issues there are which ones were fooled by the presentation of bogus intelligence by the white house and which ones voted for it to look "pro defense" in the name of political expediency...trying to look good for the majority of americans at the time and which ones actually supported the war itself...

That narrows it down quite a bit yet.

THE FEW.

That's the only way I ever take things, eh? ;)

Posted by: Cat Chew at December 15, 2005 12:53 AM

I wouldn't dare accuse you of being enduring and patient ever!

[rolls eyes]

Free Ride .. Edgar Winter .. no there is one pale MF!! PALE!!

Won't take it personal Nobs, and I hope you don't take it personally either. I like the exchange of different ideas.

This is more on the personal and governmental ideas of Libertarianism. As far as the National party goes...

Doesn't "National Libertarian Party" strike you as an oxymoron? I've seen the party at work on a local level here in Austin, and they really are the only honest bunch here.

That's where I start.

Jeebus I wish my roomate would quit trying to show me his work shit. This is getting very annoying.

All Along The Watchtower Now .. Hendrix

(Shit .. I am channeling -B!)

Nobody,

I inquire, cause I don't know. Libertarians, you guys advocate as little interference as possible in pretty much everything... correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm a bit of a socialist. I believe joint stewardship of our world depends on considerate, thoughtful, fertile regulation. As Randi Rhodes puts it, "raising all boats". Meaning not handicaping the disadvantage, but giving them a leg up. Not saying "Hey, industry, see what you can turn Yellow Stone into in 20 years".

Harvey Keitel had a line in "Rising Sun", when offered sushi: "If I get a craving for mercury, I'll eat a thermometer". There must be some stewardship over the Commons (water, clean air, uncontaminated, non-GM food, even tax policy regarding child tax-breaks to regulate our population). I believe these are essential to a successful society, and a successful species.

Am I wrong to belive you oppose much of what I just wrote? I'd love to hear your take on things...

"This is more on the personal and governmental ideas of Libertarianism. As far as the National party goes"

See there is where the distinction is drawn for me...

To boil it down libertarianism aka antisocial procorporate liberalism is a bad form of governemnt...They'll get in their and give everyone tax cuts and dismantle government which represents the social contract that this country was formed upon.

On the other hand even further boiled down as a personal philosophy of "live and let live" it describes a laudable position...unless of course it's carried to the extreme of walking on by as someone else is being abused...but after all any such intervention into anothers affairs is sort of socialists isn't it?

And in essence...yes...as a philosophy anarchism and libertarianism and even liberalism all agree on the "live and let live" core ideal.

It is however the details that get you on a large scale gvernmental level...What works for the individual works only for the individual and not the whole of society...simply because there are bad people in this world that will without regard exploit others...and it's to meet that reality that liberalism takes it's "live and let live" core and tries to be different than either of the former.

"Nobody,

I inquire, cause I don't know. Libertarians, you guys advocate as little interference as possible in pretty much everything..."

I'm not a libertarian...

Libertarians (on the whole and not an indictment of individuals) are almost identical to liberals save for they wish no restrictions on corporations, no taxes and no social programs...

Those libertarians that agree that those three things need to take place in a functioning society are liberals...

And hell if they can turn libertarianism back around to the benefit of the people than all the power to them.

It's just that "liberal" has been made so unashionalbe word by liberalisms stated enemies...that of those that wish to be the monied aristocracy that many of those liberals that believe in the ideal of "of the people" are drawn to the libertarians because it's a different word...

Polls Open in Iraq As Danger Remains

MAPS AND CHARTS OF IRAQI OILFIELDS: CHENEY ENERGY TASK FORCE

Mapping The Oil Motive

Oil in Iraq: the heart of the Crisis

I've been called a lot of things on this blog by people that aren't paying attention but calling me a libertarian...that's just not cool.

I am a left leaning (socialist) liberal (antiaristocracy) democrat.

Government of the people, by the people and for the people.

Nobody, right on!

I agree with you, entirely, if I am right in assuming that "my right to swing my fist end's as far off your nose as to not elicit a threat response" (I paraphrase : þ

I agree with you, if you believe that government meddles entirely too much, intruding upon common sense decisions (but allowences must be considered, I believe, for those thick-headed idiots that just don't get it).

Live and let live. Amen.

http://www.pagenews.info/

My bad!

And I cop, I haven't really been paying attention.

My appologies.

Nobs isn't the Libertarian Manuel, I am. The things you stated are things that support the whole. Not "special groups". One big misunderstanding is that Libertarians believe there shouldn't be any government. That is where my point of debate lies with Nobs. We do believe there should be taxes for things that benefit everyone. What I would like to see gone are the subsidies for every little group out there, big tobacco etc; that don't need it, and are draining the government of money that could be spent on improving everyones lives. I do believe in school vouchers, if the public schools can't get it done, let the market play a role in improving education. But also make sure every child has as well a chance as any other. I would favor subsidizing sending poor kids to better quality educational facilities than what the government is offering.

Granted there are some whack jobs in the Libertarian party that believe there shouldn't be any taxes, and we all know that is nuts. But all the parties seem to harbor some nuts within their bosoms.

don't mind N

he lives out in the boonies

and is a little weird as a result

http://www.sharedwisdom.com/modern.htm

Kubrick was all over the place as well, at least when he talked to others.

Posted by: Goblin Girl at December 15, 2005 12:43 AM

I've seen most of his films and liked them all.

They were all well made.

Posted by: Manuel in Mexico City at December 15, 2005 01:15 AM

That paraphrase is perfect...I use it quite a lot myself...

Your rights are inalienable to the limits of your own skin and that they don't interefere in anothers rights and government has no place there...

THe libertarians for the most agree on this point...but when it comes to the recognition that others may and will interefere with other peoples rights..aka the monied powers out of their own self interest and greed...then the libertarians in their purity say...governemnt shall not interfere...

But like my friend mucky...A true liberal at heart that calls himself a libertarian even though he's stated his disagreement to those policies...there are exceptions on the individual level as I stated earlier.

i on the other hand

am perfect!

The Japanese call it Sumimasen. I don't quite sign on to the whole complex behind it (litteraly the appology translates "I don't deserve to live)... extreme? Uh, just a tad there... However it's not a bad description of the embarassment that surges your heart when you find you've been talking out your ass...

Again, my appologies. I'm new to the blog, and as a newbie, I post before I read a lot. We have a saying down here in Mexico: "God gave me two ears and one mouth". Meaning listen before you open your stupid trap : þ

For that matter, don't mind me either. A San Francisco Bay Area native now living in Austin. I can be a little strange at times too, but I love it. :)

Just watch out for Jimmy. He smacks anyone with a fish that doesn't make the secret signal when posting on the blog after the initial 90 day initiation period. You will know what this signal is once you've been inducted into the mysteries of the MRR blog.

We know that Jim : þ

"let the market play a role in improving education."

The market only cares about the bottom line.

"One big misunderstanding is that Libertarians believe there shouldn't be any government."

As stated in the party platform

"minimal government save for defense"

The Bushies agree.

Posted by: Thoth at December 15, 2005 01:17 AM

But like I said...true blue liberal and if you can turn the libertarian party around to being for the people instead of favoring the wealthy then all the power to you.

you need'nt be humble around Nobody

he has his own lessons to learn

Full Metal Jacket has some pointed commentary about Vietnam that is true today in our venture in Iraq.

Paths of Glory resonates as well, on a slightly different level.

i on the other hand

am perfect!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at December 15, 2005 01:22 AM

uhh...ummm...sure...[wink wink]

http://www.mindpowernews.com/100Ways100Years.htm

you need'nt be humble around Nobody

he has his own lessons to learn

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at December 15, 2005 01:25 AM

Ya...about that...when do you think the advanced class is going to start?

if in only

that my own faults

are so original and entertaining!

Jim,

Hummility isn't about the other guy. At least not if your striving for it to be genuine.

Shit. Different pages again...

"To boil it down libertarianism aka antisocial procorporate liberalism is a bad form of governemnt."

You had it correct earlier. Define what "libertarianism" we are discussing before fussing and fighting. Philosophy, economics, rule of law, or folks who want to join a party that doesn't see them as wallets to be plundered and free labor to boot.

The only party I ever joined was the LP, and after LBJ and RMN, well, I dare you to blame me for picking it. At the moment, I'm a loose woman politically, but I'm considering joining the Dems and rejoinging the LP just for the practical purpose of getting with folks and pursuing our business.

And like my friend Nobs, who is a brilliant fellow on his own right would say, there is a difference between "true" free markets, and subsidized monopolies. Could we start the AAR oil company if we wished at this time? Would we be able to get drilling rights, even if we raised 100's of millions of dollars? No. Could we start our own energy company, offering the people an alternative to say PG&E on a widescale basis, even if we could pull together millions of dollars? No. There's a difference between monopolized markets and true free markets.

I don't know, but put me down for the syllabus listserv!!!

Fuck this is good stuff

Fuck me running

Fuck it all

Fuck me

Fuck!

eya AirO

yer timings improving!

The only party I ever joined was the LP, and after LBJ and RMN, well, I dare you to blame me for picking it. At the moment, I'm a loose woman politically, but I'm considering joining the Dems and rejoinging the LP just for the practical purpose of getting with folks and pursuing our business.

Posted by: Cat Chew at December 15, 2005 01:31 AM

Liberalism = anti aristocracty.

Libertarianism abandonned that.

I do like loose women though.

No. There's a difference between monopolized markets and true free markets.

Posted by: Thoth at December 15, 2005 01:31 AM

Again another liberal statement...how very anti aristocracy...

"the muthafucker called me 'brilliant'"

eya AirO

yer timings improving!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at December 15, 2005 01:33 AM

That wasn't ono

[grins]

you all realise that

5 or so independants could tie

this whole thing up solid? i've mentioned it

at least 20 times in the last two years.

now thats doable. think about it

any other points of contention, questions, assertions, ideas, topics of debate?

I'm really in the mood to stretch a little today regardless of my headcold...

now thats doable. think about it

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at December 15, 2005 01:38 AM

THis would be about where you highlighted te particulars and took the oncept from the realm of the abstract and made it a plausible practicality...

thas OK, it's timing is getting better also!

is it permanent? one can only hope!

consistency is the mark of a

successful professional.

[hands jimmy a banana]

potassium is good for the old prostate...and the brain...how those two are connected I dunno...

"Libertarianism abandonned that."

Nope. Libertarianism has been battered and abused like a few other political names folks fling at each other. Libertarian is not pro-corporation as it is about personal freedom and responsibility (and also about folks who don't much care for the big two). Unless you listen to the laissez faire, laissez passer capitalists who say: Hey! Love us! We are the real libertarians.

Screw that. Screw CATO Institute, too.

Hey, Nobody,

Blame? Here in Mexico I always voted PRI (the anti-deluvian party that ruled since, oh, 1921?). I was young and credulous. However, as I assume lots of Iraquis are, I yearn for the old days.

If I may bore you for a moment, let me advance the following thesis:

Parlamentary democracies are stable only under a multi-party system.

Presidential Democracies are only stable under a two-party system.

One of the most unstable political systems is a multi-party Presidential, as we have in Mexico. I think (I can give you exact numbers tomorrow) 24 out of 26 multi-party Presidential systems have fallen to military coups. Mexico being one exception, and I forget the other.

It's all about political incentives. Coalitions favor parlimentary systems. Concentrated oppositions favor Presidential systems.

If you have, like we did, a single, unchallenged ruling party for 70 years, it was a given that as soon as that changed, the Party coming into power would have to rob and steal orders of magnitude more money over a sexenium (our President is elected for six years, non-renewable... good in that they spend the six years working, instead of working for two and campaigning for two), than all the money the PRI had managed to steal over 70 years in order to contest the next election.

Same goes for any newcomer. Does that make sense?

That's why all the votes for Nader were idiotic. That's why we all have to converge on the Democrats this time. And insist they legislate accountability measures!

Does that make sense?

//"let the market play a role in improving education."

The market only cares about the bottom line.
//

And if a company is providing shitty education for their students, their bottom line isn't going to look good for long, is it? Face it. The public education system is a monopolized market in it's own right, and it is failing. It's the only choice for the pleibs. The rich can escape this socialistic monopoly of bringing everyone to the same level by paying for their kids to attend private schools that actually teach kids something. The better the school, the higher the demand to attend there, and of course costs do go up. What happens is the poor are stuck in the muck, and the rich keep mulling ahead because they can afford to do so.

Why not give the poor the same oppurtunity to attend the same schools? The reason I see is solely to keep the public education system going, that has proven itself getting worse year, after year. The poor are locked in the death grip of the shitty ass subsidized market that is known as the public education system, while the rich send their own to better schools, and ultimately keep the same cycle going. Who is more important to the Democratic party, the children? Or the goddamn teachers union their fighting for to keep the current loser cycle in place? Unions can be a good thing, and they can also be a downer on society.

Posted by: Thoth at December 15, 2005 01:31 AM

another point...you did state my position fairly well...albeit I would've also noted that the use of the term "free market" has become merely a political buzzword used to jerk well meaning peoples chains into doing stupid shit.

I cite once again the bush administration and it's lip service...

nah

i'm more interested

in the flaws to that approach.

what would happen if it all went terribly

wrong, and what could be done about it

when it did. the advantage, of

course is having the

deciding vote in

close "calls".

http://reactor-core.org/operating-manual-for-spaceship-earth.html

http://www.american-buddha.com/legalpiggily.htm

http://reactor-core.org/grunch-of-giants.html

Posted by: Thoth at December 15, 2005 01:45 AM

"And if a company is providing shitty education for their students, their bottom line isn't going to look good for long, is it?"

Does it need to when the ceo can rake it in and run?

"The public education system is a monopolized market in it's own right"

Pooling resources for the common good is not a bad thing save that it risks homogenization but that's another issue and not political.

"The better the school, the higher the demand to attend there, and of course costs do go up."

Money buys anything...Did you know that W attended both yale and harvard? Do you suppose he was actually educated?

"Why not give the poor the same oppurtunity to attend the same schools?"

You mean like providing the same high quality education to public schools?...Well that would require that more money be put into them wouldn't it?...Of course that means some sacrifice by the "elites" of their eliteness...

"The poor are locked in the death grip of the shitty ass subsidized market that is known as the public education system, while the rich send their own to better schools"

And vote down money being spent on public education...they must after all maintain their eliteness.

"Unions can be a good thing, and they can also be a downer on society."

People getting together for a common interest is a bad thing?

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at December 15, 2005 01:47 AM

skip it...consider "proportional representation" in its stead.

//No. There's a difference between monopolized markets and true free markets.

Posted by: Thoth at December 15, 2005 01:31 AM

Again another liberal statement...how very anti aristocracy...

"the muthafucker called me 'brilliant'"

Posted by: Nobody at December 15, 2005 01:35 AM
//

No Nobs, you didn't state anything brilliant. When you look at what your party is doing, the democrats are very big on supporting monopolized markets. It's not that I'm "a liberal" under your terms, although I am in the classical sense, it looks to me like you're more of a distruaght Libertarian, who has turned to the government to fill in the holes of the gaps lacking in our social fabric. Instead of trusting your fellow peers, you look to an Overlord to see that those steps be taken. The substitute then in your thinking is do I trust the corporate overlord? Or does one trust the special interest overlords that run the Democrat and Republican parties? Who is the least dirty of the few? Let's ponder this dilemma for a moment...

public programs have lower overhead than private programs meant to do the same thing...thus you get more bang for your buck with public financed programs.

They don't have to line ceos pockets, they don't have to show a profit to shareholders...

They can break even for as long as they need to without any pressure....spending ever dime into the programs needs rather than on building wealth for someone else.

Does that make sense?

Posted by: Manuel in Mexico City at December 15, 2005 01:45 AM""

ya good stuff, nice analysis!

umm theres a few wrinkles though...

about 30% of the dems are hopelessly

currupt and/or compromised, what we call DINO's

main thing i keep in mind is that the money boys are

the main ones calling the shots, they have almost
complete control.

so where does that leave you given that's true?

Nobody,

It stands to reason that private enterprise is for profit. That's why they should NEVER be involved in ecological or social sustenance.

I am all for spending, where it concerns getting and compensating for the best possible people to run things, within reason. Any organisation ENTRUSTED, must, per force, be dedicated to its mission. To fit its ambitions to its budget. Not trying to see what margin it can draw for its Quarterly Report.

If you want your kids to be educated and do well, and they can't find their way on their own, you have to work at it yourself, because it doesn't matter if it's private or public education, the fact is no one else cares as much for your kin as you do.

If there appear vouchers, private schools that are the equivilent of McDonalds will start popping up, and your kids will get crappy educations just the same as you think they are getting now, but probably worse. The Phelps, and Dobsons, and Falwells are all over your schools. They have money and time and the high weird meanness and crappiness to do it.

Posted by: Thoth at December 15, 2005 01:55 AM

"No Nobs, you didn't state anything brilliant."

I knew you would take it back...bastard.

"When you look at what your party is doing, the democrats are very big on supporting monopolized markets."

And I did say that they have abandonned liberalism did I not?

"although I am in the classical sense,"

And it's in the classical sense that I use the term.

"Instead of trusting your fellow peers"

trust the bush administration...

"you look to an Overlord to see that those steps be taken."

No I look to a govenment of the people, by the people and for the people and not what it's become an aristocracy.

"The substitute then in your thinking is do I trust the corporate overlord? Or does one trust the special interest overlords that run the Democrat and Republican parties?"

Is there even a difference in reality?

The monied aristocracy controls everything in this country and it doesn't matter what business they're in...and you can't even call them on it...if you do you're "punishing success" and if you help the poor you're "rewarding failure"

You make a great deal of monopolies...but seem to draw little distinction between those that are beneficial and those that are destructive...would you care to clarify yourself here?

//People getting together for a common interest is a bad thing?

Posted by: Nobody at December 15, 2005 01:52 AM
//

Well, that would depend on what the common interest is, wouldn't it? You do know that the Bilderbergers get together for common interest meetings once a year? Now, they may have a few ideas going on that may be benificial to the whole, but ultimately where do their interests lie?

proportional representation!

dam good ideer, me an KP kicked that

one around quite a bit and we were just getting started

If there appear vouchers, private schools that are the equivilent of McDonalds will start popping up, and your kids will get crappy educations just the same as you think they are getting now, but probably worse. The Phelps, and Dobsons, and Falwells are all over your schools. They have money and time and the high weird meanness and crappiness to do it.

Posted by: Cat Chew at December 15, 2005 02:04 AM

They see education as merely another market to exploit...and they need to "free" it up from public monopolization.

Well, that would depend on what the common interest is, wouldn't it? You do know that the Bilderbergers get together for common interest meetings once a year? Now, they may have a few ideas going on that may be benificial to the whole, but ultimately where do their interests lie?

Posted by: Thoth at December 15, 2005 02:05 AM

Are you comparing teachers unions to the bilderbergers now?

If so I need a size bigger on my tinfoil hat...

Jim,

Funny, we called the PRI heirarchy "Los Dinosaurios" here too : þ Campaign Finance and Lobbying reform, but I know you know.

There's one thing about Mexico's system I find very favorable: All candidates get (too big of a) campaign stipend, and are not supposed to enlist outside money. Public money.

They get alloted (tons of) TV and media time. All equally. Level playing field. It's a war of ideas, not Pesos. Now, whether they're genuine in their protestations is a variable both you and we have trouble with...

But on a re-election campaign, money becomes irrelevant. It's all track record baby (at least against the rhetoric and promises of the challengers, you have to gauge their sincerity).

But capitalization is out of the game. So it who financed your campaign, and your being beholden to them for re-election.

proportional representation!

dam good ideer, me an KP kicked that

one around quite a bit and we were just getting started

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at December 15, 2005 02:05 AM

I'd be glad to jump in on that...

Mind you I might be a bit ditracted at the moment.

But capitalization is out of the game. So it who financed your campaign, and your being beholden to them for re-election.

Posted by: Manuel in Mexico City at December 15, 2005 02:09 AM

I heard that one candidate raised 750 million at a single dinner not long ago...

I'd like to ask your opinion of the state of mexicos tax vs social spending situation sometime...

From what I gather Mexico is the tenth wealthiest country in the world...has the lowest taxes and a severe poverty level...care to extrapolate?

"Los Dinosaurios" here too"

hee hee! we got that in common!!!

//public programs have lower overhead than private programs meant to do the same thing...thus you get more bang for your buck with public financed programs.//

O Rly? You do have an idea of how the whole beauracratic thing works, don't you? So you are of the utmost belief that government knows best on how to spend the free dollars they're raking in wisely? Private corporations have investors to answer to, who do the Democrats and Republicans answer to? The same "ignorant" population that keeps putting them into their positions over and over again. Who do you think would spend the money most wisely in that position?

"You do have an idea of how the whole beauracratic thing works, don't you?"

The typical programs overhead is between 1% and 2% whereas private comapanies have an overhead due to those very same profit motives of 30% or better...In fact some ceo salaries are equal to that of the entirety of the rest of the people that work for the company all together.

//Are you comparing teachers unions to the bilderbergers now?

If so I need a size bigger on my tinfoil hat...

Posted by: Nobody at December 15, 2005 02:08 AM
//

You proposed a hypothetical question, I gave a hypothetical response. In other words, you gave a moot point.

Yep,

About that capitalization "irregularity" you heard about. Our own President Fox is the offender. We call them "Amigos de Fox". There's a huge continuing stink about that here. But there's one of many points where your Constitution is superior. You get to impeach Presidents. There is no such mechanism down here short of revolution.

You proposed a hypothetical question, I gave a hypothetical response. In other words, you gave a moot point.

Posted by: Thoth at December 15, 2005 02:16 AM

Not at all...Your comparison of interests with the emphasis that unions were "bad" was quite specious and I aimed some ridicule in your direction for it...to be accurate.

//The typical programs overhead is between 1% and 2%//

You really believe that?

//The typical programs overhead is between 1% and 2%//

You really believe that?

Posted by: Thoth at December 15, 2005 02:19 AM

That's what the numbers show...mind you I'm not counting the black budgets in the pentagon and cia...the overhead there I'm sure is quite out of bounds.

"You do have an idea of how the whole beauracratic thing works, don't you?"

Better than the political patronage, "Pay-for-play," Doing a heckuva jog, Brownie" thing does, these days, apparently. :)

You get a bunch of wonks who are apolitical but good at what they do and things go well. You hand out their tasks to patronage asshats and cronies and... "Uh-oh!"

//Not at all...Your comparison of interests with the emphasis that unions were "bad" was quite specious and I aimed some ridicule in your direction for it...to be accurate.

Posted by: Nobody at December 15, 2005 02:18 AM
//

Try again. Look at the question you put forth, and then state that it wasn't a hypothetical question:

//People getting together for a common interest is a bad thing?

Posted by: Nobody at December 15, 2005 01:52 AM //
//

Do you think that isn't a hypothetical question?

You get a bunch of wonks who are apolitical but good at what they do and things go well. You hand out their tasks to patronage asshats and cronies and... "Uh-oh!"

Posted by: Cat Chew at December 15, 2005 02:21 AM

You mean when they start acting like the private sector don't you?

//People getting together for a common interest is a bad thing?

Posted by: Nobody at December 15, 2005 01:52 AM // //

Do you think that isn't a hypothetical question?

Posted by: Thoth at December 15, 2005 02:23 AM

It's not much of a "theory" that people get together out of common interest and unite...form unions is it?

So it's not really a hypothetical at all is it?

It's a question on whether or not you think that people getting together is a bad thing...

Apparently in the case of teachers unions and the bilderbergers you think so...

I'm not sure about the lowest taxes, I doubt it.

More comming up:

I happen to think we are all the "private sector."

We are frequently in the same place, but our paths are very different sometimes....

The KKK get together for a common interest, don't they? Would you care to try to rephrase your thinking on this matter?

C&L - Bill Frist: Cut & run answers

Frist was on with Harry Smith from the CBS Early Show.

Instead of answering his question, Frist tries to use talking points.

Smith: Mr Frist, Mr. Frist, there were no terrorists in Iraq to begin with. It is now a haven for terrorists. We created a haven for terrorists.

Frist: You-you can look to the past and the democrats want to go back and try and live through the past and say what if-and the intelligence wasn't accurate-and let's cut and run...

Did you not hear his question Mr. Frist? Please don't cut and run from the question Mr. Frist. Did we create a--never mind.

WMV Clip

The KKK get together for a common interest, don't they? Would you care to try to rephrase your thinking on this matter?

Posted by: Thoth at December 15, 2005 02:28 AM

So are you stating that any and all times that people get together and form unions its a bad thing?

Please be clear...and I'm very aware that there are many examples of when people get together to the detriment of others.

In other words answer the fucking question already I'm getting tired of dancing.

I'm not sure about the lowest taxes, I doubt it.

More comming up:

Posted by: Manuel in Mexico City at December 15, 2005 02:27 AM

I said "low" not lowest...in comparison to the US it's "very low" if I remember right.

By the way, I'm not saying you're affiliated with the KKK or anything like that. I know you hate the scumbags as much as I do.

(Just need to clarify that in this day and age)

I happen to think we are all the "private sector."

We are frequently in the same place, but our paths are very different sometimes....

Posted by: Cat Chew at December 15, 2005 02:28 AM

So I take the path less travelled...

It's a problem of representation. Do you represent voters, or your country?

That is, over a quarter of Mexico's population resides in Mexico City districts. 25% of anything is HUGE in political terms. So, all the "visible" aid and social programs are directed at your concentrations of oppining voters.

So, yeah. The rest of the country would be totally short-changed were it not for regional governors and assemblies. But it still comes down to masses. Most of the "prettyfiying" takes place in urban concentrations, and the poor Oaxacan farmer go fuck himself.

A SERIOUS REQUEST:

Can we here gathered come up with a better, more equitably distribuited model for an asymetrical society (think Silicon Valley and Missouri cotton farmers)?

(Just need to clarify that in this day and age)

Posted by: Thoth at December 15, 2005 02:32 AM

or else someone will come along later and call it a fact that I'm a nazi...Yeah I've seen similiar happen very recently and I do thank you for your care as it's become more than just a tad annoying.

Thoth, what are saying? I used to think I knew a bit about where you were going, but after reading you tonight, it sounds an awful lot like the third "Road Warrior" movie I saw.

Maybe you could be a bit more succint? Is it that Nazi crap you see on other blogs? I'm not getting you. Um, did I mention I was a card-carrying LP for a long time? Eep!

I happen to think we are all the "private sector."

We are frequently in the same place, but our paths are very different sometimes....

Posted by: Cat Chew at December 15, 2005 02:28 AM

A second thought here though...I've travelled in both circles of the monied and the poor...There is a vast gulf between the two...When I use the "private sector" I'm talking about the monied...specifically the large scale predatory capitalists and not the every day joe or the mom and pop capitalists...

Can we here gathered come up with a better, more equitably distribuited model for an asymetrical society (think Silicon Valley and Missouri cotton farmers)?

Posted by: Manuel in Mexico City at December 15, 2005 02:33 AM

tax the rich...give to the poor.

So are you stating that any and all times that people get together and form unions its a bad thing?

I threw the example back at you, can you say it's always a good thing?

Please be clear...and I'm very aware that there are many examples of when people get together to the detriment of others. In other words answer the fucking question already I'm getting tired of dancing.

Posted by: Nobody at December 15, 2005 02:30 AM

And thank you for showing my point that what you stated was a hypothetical question. The hypothetical questions and answers can go round and round can't they?

"So people gathering for a common interest is a bad thing?"

I'm not that easy Nobs, you should know me by now. Where you going to ask me if I still beat my wife next?

So are people gathering for common interests always a good thing? We could turn it around that way as well, and point to things like Klan rallies, couldn't we?

So I take the path less travelled...

Posted by: Nobody at December 15, 2005 02:32 AM

Silly. You think there's a path....

well

i expect u all

to be in action and

well financed by tomorrow AM!!!

if you'll pardon me, i have

an appointment with Bgurl...

love u all, peaches!

I'm not that easy Nobs, you should know me by now. Where you going to ask me if I still beat my wife next?

So are people gathering for common interests always a good thing? We could turn it around that way as well, and point to things like Klan rallies, couldn't we?

Posted by: Thoth at December 15, 2005 02:40 AM

So you aren't going to answer a simple question?

What is your fear here?

If you're not ashamed or have reason to be ashamed of your position then why are you hiding it?

Do you believe that any time people get together and form a union that it's a bad thing?

simple.

Silly. You think there's a path....

Posted by: Cat Chew at December 15, 2005 02:41 AM

There is after I go there...

Tax the rich... give to the poor.

Good start nobody! Thing is, which poor? The ones who all live in convenient 200 block district, or those who live, in a demographical comparison, over a couple of states, and aren't a part of a "unified" district or representation?

There is after I go there...

(snicker!)

Here I'll help you out by stating mine first...

When people get together from a standpoint of common interests it can be either good and bad and as such does not indict the forming of unions itself and must be weighed individually as to the relative good or ill of that union as it relates to others.

To put all associations in the same basket is to deny that any good many be done from pooling our resources at all...

I'm just not that much of a pessimist yet...sorry.

Tax the rich... give to the poor.

Good start nobody! Thing is, which poor? The ones who all live in convenient 200 block district, or those who live, in a demographical comparison, over a couple of states, and aren't a part of a "unified" district or representation?

Posted by: Manuel in Mexico City at December 15, 2005 02:46 AM

All of them based not upon where they live but on the fact that they have heads to place hats upon.

The only requirement.

//Yeah I've seen similiar happen very recently and I do thank you for your care as it's become more than just a tad annoying.

Posted by: Nobody at December 15, 2005 02:34 AM
//

You're not a Nazi Nobs. The people I was debating with on the racist blog I found are Nazis. You have a complaint with the Israeli government, and have an opinion on whether Israel should be a nation or not? That's all well and good. The people I was dealing with were expressing ideas that they would love to see Jews dead, becuase it would make the world a happier place. The Jews are running every bit of their lives and are responsible for every misery they've ever encounterd in their myoscopic little world.

There's a huge difference.

I go on the record here, Nobs is not a Nazi. I don't agree with all his opinions, but he's entitled to them. There's a big difference to Nobs opinions, and seeing what true Nazis are. For that, go to Cytes blog.

So how do the poor masses stand up to the monied interests if not by forming unions?

Shall we form armies instead?

They are after all another form of union.

And governments are unions...

Any damned group of people that get together out of common interest is a union...

What next are you going to break up trekkie clubs cuz they've unionized?

There is after I go there...

Posted by: Nobody at December 15, 2005 02:44 AM

Silly, like you'd been there first. You know it isn't about you. It's all about me! ;)

[I should write a creditable disclaimer at this point, but I'm tiring...]

Nor for that matter am I willing to take the position that all things are fucked up so therefore they must all be torn down so that we can start over from scratch...

That's retarded.

Silly, like you'd been there first. You know it isn't about you. It's all about me! ;)

[I should write a creditable disclaimer at this point, but I'm tiring...]

Posted by: Cat Chew at December 15, 2005 02:54 AM

No one's been there in a while and the underbrush is chafing...regardless, I go on and perhaps I might make it a little further than my predecessors.

To give up and say that all has been done before and hide behidn hte legends of the forefathers is jsut another cop out to the responsibility that we all carry within us as an "intelligent" species let alone as citizens of this country.

To honor ones father one must do what the father most wishes...and that is to surpass him.

Nobody:

Great minds, y'know? Now we just have to #1 Find or found an example to point to (I can present a few microcosms, like Singapore, in a social security respect) and #2 Convince everyone else the realization of their dreams lies that away.

It's hard to convince people to defer gratification. Ask TWR and Equifax and the banks...

I think, foremost, an intensive and comprehensive social and environmental campaign should be foremost in our deliberations.

//When people get together from a standpoint of common interests it can be either good and bad and as such does not indict the forming of unions itself and must be weighed individually as to the relative good or ill of that union as it relates to others.//

Well that's quite different, isn't it? LOL. It's all well and good. I know where you're coming from. I'm going to head out and get some sleep. Gotta be at work in 6 hours. Yallz have a good night. Get some sleep too Nobs if you can. Sometimes I think you must get exhausted. I know you have sleep problems as do I, but take care of yourself man. I enjoy talking with you too much to see you crash someday. Will talk to yallz later.

Cat Chew you sexy thing, have a good night. :)

REPEAT POST FOR SAM:

Re: Prof. Don Wise

The name of that theory is Founder's Effect. See my post above.

I think, foremost, an intensive and comprehensive social and environmental campaign should be foremost in our deliberations.

Posted by: Manuel in Mexico City at December 15, 2005 02:57 AM

I think that they are the same thing...and I think that you're right...This world needs to pay attention to the most valuable resource that occurs here...and that is people.

People are of such high value...such inestimable worth and potential that they are indeed worthy of any investment in them and their quality of life.

To us will be given the stars...unless we're too busy bending over picking up pennies to see the dollars fly by in the wind.

Posted by: Thoth at December 15, 2005 02:58 AM

Ya gotta stop being so freaking defensive because that assumes that the other guy is your enemy...stop hanging around with the freaks for a while and maybe your nerves will settle.

Republicans kill amendment to investigate Halliburton contract abuse; pledge hearings in December

Although Senate Republicans killed an amendment that would have established a special investigation into war profiteering by Halliburton and other companies by a vote of 53 to 44 today, they have pledged to investigate Halliburton before the end of the year.

The amendment, introduced by Senator Byron Dorgan, D-ND, during Senate consideration of the 2006 Defense Authorization bill, would have established a special committee modeled after Senator Harry Truman's World War II committee, which cost just thousands, but saved taxpayers $15 billion in 1940s' dollars. It was the third time in two years that the Senate rejected Dorgan's amendment.

After Dorgan introduced his amendment again yesterday, Sen. John Ensign, R-NV, made a surprise announcement that he would hold formal hearings into Halliburton's contract abuses in Iraq sometime in December. Ensign chairs a subcommittee of the Armed Services Committee - known as the Subcommittee on Readiness and Management Support.

For two years, the Republican-controlled Senate has resisted public calls for a formal investigation into Halliburton, once headed by Vice President Dick Cheney, even though it is being investigated for numerous violations, including criminal bid-rigging, overcharging of taxpayers, bribery and criminally profiting in a nation believed by President Bush to sponsor terrorism.

Although Republicans maintain that the Special Inspector General for Iraqi Reconstruction is conducting an investigation, the Senate has failed to provide its own oversight.

The Army Corps of Engineers' top civilian contracting official, Bunnatine H. Greenhouse, was demoted in August after blowing the whistle on the Corps and Halliburton. "I can unequivocally state that the abuse related to contracts awarded to [Halliburton] represents the most blatant and improper contract abuse I have witnessed during the course of my professional career," Greenhouse said.

Nobuddy : þ

I think "we" as humans have a bit of a prob. We're all potential Einsteins, Pasteurs and Freuds. Life opportunities should idealy be available for each of us.

But I must emphasise my earlier point. We cannot long survive if we dont ALL curtail our desires and cravings somewhat, and allow for our race to reach a stable, or better yet constructive, realtionship with our planet.

That's one thing I do NOT think we have the leisure of long deliberation about. We MUST find a way to further our species, and further all we are by default, stewards of.

Someone hinted that I should riff on what it's like being poor and smart a while ago...

Can you think of a bigger tragedy than to have the next einstein go undiscovered because he's too busy digging in garbage trying to stay alive?

A study I read once on the breakdown of jobs for people with high iqs went something like this...

65% end up in prison due to poverty...

10% of them ended up in either the military or as police...

20% of them ended up in regular jobs like janitor, the building trades or saying "you want fries with that?"

and only 5% made it into the sciences and higher education...

With 65% of our most talented ending up imprisoned and unable to work for the benefit of our society...how can we call our society anything but unproductive, regressive and retarded?

I go on the record here, Nobs is not a Nazi. I don't agree with all his opinions, but he's entitled to them. There's a big difference to Nobs opinions, and seeing what true Nazis are. For that, go to Cytes blog.

Posted by: Thoth at December 15, 2005 02:51 AM

I like you and Nobody and muck4doo and "NEWS CONSUMER" but is was instructive to see how that "anti-semite" label you flung at Nobs stuck with a third party. Yeesh! Me, I've gotten into pissy matches and hissy fits with folks here-abouts, mostly over threats and insults, but that particular insult that carries the weight of a world war and a religious persection and genocide seems outrageous! I hope you stop, because it's not reflective of any facts that I've read here.

That's one thing I do NOT think we have the leisure of long deliberation about. We MUST find a way to further our species, and further all we are by default, stewards of.

Posted by: Manuel in Mexico City at December 15, 2005 03:07 AM

If this is the only world that life has arisen on do we not have a responsibility to the other lifeforms on this planet as their brothers to care for them better than they can themselves?

Is it not our responsibility to be gardeners and spread this seed of life to other worlds that are empty of such grace?

Or is it that we've so come to hate our own existence that we project our death wish outwards and deny the the garden it's due care?

Elderly convicted hitman executed in Mississippi

PARCHMAN, Miss. A 77-year-old convicted hitman has become the oldest person in the nation put to death since capital punishment was reinstated nearly three decades ago.

John B. Nixon Senior still claimed he was innocent Wednesday, even as he was strapped to the Mississippi death-chamber gurney. He blamed one of his two sons for the murder of a woman 20 years ago. But the former car mechanic didn't say which one.

Neither one of them has been in contact with their father.

The two sons and another man were also convicted in the killing but were given lesser sentences.

According to court records, one of Nixon's accomplices wrestled Virginia Tucker to the ground and Nixon put the gun to her head and pulled the trigger.

Is it not our responsibility to be natures arms and legs and carry her forward as the vangaurd of her works?

'buddy:

I guess we're in sync a bit, huh? That's never happened to me before, that my post should reflect someone else's post pre-sentially.

BTW, throughout, pardon my spelling. I'm Mexican : Þ

BTW, throughout, pardon my spelling. I'm Mexican : Þ

Posted by: Manuel in Mexico City at December 15, 2005 03:14 AM

uhhh you don't even want to see my attempt at spanish...I'm bad enough with the language I was born to...No apologies necessary.

I don't think we're the only ones. Look up "The Drake Equation".

Now, how significant we turn out to be? That totally depends on whether we have to survive ourselves successfully, or we build and compliment and evolve.

I don't think we're the only ones. Look up "The Drake Equation".

Now, how significant we turn out to be? That totally depends on whether we have to survive ourselves successfully, or we build and compliment and evolve.

Posted by: Manuel in Mexico City at December 15, 2005 03:17 AM

Note that said "if" to lend weight to the emptiness of space...

The letters are all but wore off my SETI tshirt but I still wear it...

Myself...I think natures greatest work is the concept of symbiotic relationships...

Man has found and made more of these connections than any other species...

Man should find all of the connections and make himself truly symbiotic to all species.

Like I mentioned about "great minds" : )

OK, I'm kissing both our asses, ostensibly. I don't do that. But it's hard not to give yourself some props in the sea of imbecility we're treading water in, y'know? Humility, Manuel, humility : þ

We're plagued with the "get it while you can" mentality...for them there are too few tomorrows and they can not see beyond their own mortality...

Anything they do to please themselves up unto that point is fully justified and without consequence...

To remove oneself from the whole...to become viral...to become a parasite...these are great crimes indeed.

Us being totally symbiotic would take some serious evolution. Some would argue becoming prime producers (human photosynthesis?)

Now there's another scary thought. To quote "Ghost in the Shell": "If human kind realises a technology is within grasp, it realises it, like it's goddamn instinctive"

Genome manipulation could have us breathing water, basking in the sun and supplementing with the occasional pankton in 80 year or so (number pulled outta my butt).

Then there's the super-race supremacist concept that would utilize the same means.

How evil or good is man in mass?

But it's hard not to give yourself some props in the sea of imbecility we're treading water in, y'know? Humility, Manuel, humility : þ

Posted by: Manuel in Mexico City at December 15, 2005 03:24 AM

forgiven...but I must also throw in the disclaimer that I'm already considered unbearable arrogant and obnoxious...perhaps you shouldn't encourage me?...

Or perhaps I'm just glad to not be alone in this.

Manila police arrest 'revolutionary' leader

MANILA (Reuters) - Philippine police arrested an 80-year-old retired general on Thursday, one day after he was proclaimed leader of a "revolutionary government" and called on President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo to step down.

Fortunato Abat, a frequent critic of Arroyo, and three companions were taken to the main national police camp in Manila.

State prosecutors were preparing sedition charges against Abat and two members of the "revolutionary government", including a former ambassador and a former finance secretary.

"The line must be drawn somewhere," Raul Gonzales, the justice secretary, said on television.

"We cannot allow Abat to run around all the time and attack the government and even proclaim himself the president. We cannot just allow that to keep going on because that might be misinterpreted as the government is totally without any muscle."

More -

I mustta mised this earlier ....

Bob Novak Says President Knows Leak Source

HO - LEE SHIT!!!!

"Us being totally symbiotic would take some serious evolution. Some would argue becoming prime producers (human photosynthesis?)"

That's an interesting line of thought that I have travelled down before...it would cut overall food cost...But how much of that would be restricted due "fashion"

"Genome manipulation could have us breathing water, basking in the sun and supplementing with the occasional pankton in 80 year or so (number pulled outta my butt)."

We would become all the creatures of our fantasies...fairies and angels and elves and dwarves and dragons...etc etc etc...fashion you know?

"Then there's the super-race supremacist concept that would utilize the same means."

THe homogenizing of humanity to suit a single ideal?...Nature precludes such things...All niches must be filled...fashion ya know?

[breaks into a chorus of "it ain't easy being green"]

'buddy!

Don't do that! I spit out half my Rum & Coke and sprayed it all over my monitor! Gotta go get a napkin...

when east meets west wlll mankind truly become whole...

When the wests technology meets the easts symbiotic ideals will we meet our true potential as a species...

K, that's better. I hope you're right about that. I have to think about it a bit, but it sounds right.

Don't do that! I spit out half my Rum & Coke and sprayed it all over my monitor! Gotta go get a napkin...

Posted by: Manuel in Mexico City at December 15, 2005 03:37 AM

What lives within our collective minds is always sooner or later expressed upon the world...too long has it been our darker dreams...

And then their is mechancial bioenhancment as well...

We are without limit as both creators and destroyers...Too look upon the infinite is to feel very, very small and most shy away and instead hang on to the comfortable impossibilty of "it hasn't happened yet so therefore it won't"

All niches will be filled.

Ah, and for all our vituperations and tantrums, we're insignificant (hat tip to your SETI tee). But not in our little microcosms. We love the illusion of controll.

How much of our individual control are we willing to sacrifice for "the greater (ours included) good"?

'nyway, I'll see ya soon. I thing we're the last ones here, and I'm signing off. I look forward to us pinging a few more pongs : )
Manuel

Ah, and for all our vituperations and tantrums, we're insignificant (hat tip to your SETI tee). But not in our little microcosms. We love the illusion of control.

How much of our individual control are we willing to sacrifice for "the greater (ours included) good"?

'nyway, I'll see ya soon. I thing we're the last ones here, and I'm signing off. I look forward to us pinging a few more pongs : )
Manuel

'nyway, I'll see ya soon. I thing we're the last ones here, and I'm signing off. I look forward to us pinging a few more pongs : ) Manuel

Posted by: Manuel in Mexico City at December 15, 2005 03:47 AM

Nice to have had this time...It left me thinking...Till you return...be well.

How do human beings go figure who is alpha and beta and gamma and etc? What cues are on display? Leaving out the familial accumulation of wealth and adopted signals of power that weren't honestly won, of course...

How do human beings go figure who is alpha and beta and gamma and etc? What cues are on display? Leaving out the familial accumulation of wealth and adopted signals of power that weren't honestly won, of course...

Posted by: Cat Chew at December 15, 2005 03:54 AM

Oh dear lord woman...Thats a huge can of worms...and I'm not capable of giving it it's full discussion...

Simply this...Without those corrupting influences...In a world were survival were the ever present priority...Whom would you follow and whom would you lead?

Nature has selected by means of those choices who leads and who is lead.

What displays are important to you?

How are humans different from the other species?

What do humans select for?

_

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,1667679,00.html">http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,1667679,00.html">http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,1667679,00.html

"Upon suffering beyond suffering; the Red Nation shall rise again and it shall be a blessing for a sick world. A world filled with broken promises, selfishness and separations. A world longing for light again. I see a time of seven generations when all the colors of mankind will gather under the sacred Tree of Life and the whole Earth will become one circle again. In that day there will be those among the Lakota who will carry knowledge and understanding of unity among all living things, and the young white ones will come to those of my people and ask for this wisdom. I salute the light within your eyes where the whole universe dwells. For when you are at that center within you and I am that place within me, we shall be as one." -- Crazy Horse

"Oh dear lord woman...Thats a huge can of worms.."

Oh, gimme a break, like you don't enjoy red wigglers on occasion!

"Whom would you follow and whom would you lead?"

Phooman and my kitties, of course. After, my friends, the ones who showed up...

Outside of my favorites, I dunno.

You should leave it when you're not up to it. You do not have to answer every question!

Hey, if you have better intel than I do, I want to know, dammit!

"Outside of my favorites, I dunno. "

That's your answer.

"You do not have to answer every question!"

Yes...I do.

I just can't help myself.

This is my hope...

There was an old lady, from the "Cree" tribe, named "Eyes of Fire", who prophesied that one day, because of the white mans' or Yo-ne-gis' greed, there would come a time, when the fish would die in the streams, the birds would fall from the air, the waters would be blackened, and the trees would no longer be, mankind as we would know it would all but cease to exist.

There would come a time when the "keepers of the legend, stories, culture rituals, and myths, and all the Ancient Tribal Customs" would be needed to restore us to health. They would be mankinds’ key to survival, they were the "Warriors of the Rainbow". There would come a day of awakening when all the peoples of all the tribes would form a New World of Justice, Peace, Freedom and recognition of the Great Spirit.

The sacred Aztec calendar is properly called the Eagle BowlIt represents the solar deity Tonatiuh. The amazingly accurate calendar has been in use in various forms for more than 2,000 years. A Zapotec prophecy, based on the Eagle Bowl, states:

"After Thirteen Heavens of Decreasing Choice, and Nine Hells of Increasing Doom, the Tree of Life shall blossom with a fruit never before known in the creation, and that fruit shall be the New Spirit of Men."

The 13 Heavens and 9 Hells were each 52 years long (1,144 years total). Each of the 9 Hells were to be worse than the last. On the final day of the last Hell (August 17, 1987), Tezcatlipoca, god of death, would remove his mask of jade to reveal himself as Quetzelcoatl, god of peace.

In the mythology of the Aztecs, the first age of mankind ended with the animals devouring humans. The second age was finished by wind, the third by fire, and the fourth by water. The present fifth epoch is called Nahui-Olin (Sun of Earthquake), which began in 3113 BC and will end on December 24, 2011. It will be the last destruction of human existence on Earth. The date coincides closely with that determined by the brothers McKenna in The Invisible Landscape as “the end of history” indicated by their computer analysis of the ancient Chinese oracle-calendar, the I Ching.

[sigh]

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at December 15, 2005 01:33 AM

yeah, right

good judge of horse flesh, s.j.

if i were to post such twaddle, i'd beat me up with a rock

& sing auld lang syne

*

when i lurk, i lurk - i don't post

Nobody,

So, I'm an insomniac, dammit! And I peeked. You and I have a thing or million to discuss, my friend. I see you're a desciple of lore.

Insomnia, that is, if you'd describe your sleep cycle as what happens to one of those super-bouncy rubber balls you get in candy machines, launched off a slingshot in a fresly painted, unoccupied concrete bunker : þ

Meaning, I'll be around randomly, but I really look forward to encountering you again bro.

Posted by: Manuel in Mexico City at December 15, 2005 04:36 AM

I sleep from 2-4 hours a day...It's grown more severe as the years have passed...I don't seem to suffer many ill efects from it...save that my dreaming is more intense...it doesn't much wish to be denied I think...

"These are the Signs that great destruction is coming. The world shall rock to and fro. The white man will battle against other people in other lands --- with those who possessed the first light of wisdom. There will be many columns of smoke such as White Feather has seen the white man make in the deserts not far from here. Only those which come will cause disease and a great dying. Many of my people, understanding the prophecies, shall be safe. Those who stay and live in the places of my people also shall be safe. Then there will be much to rebuild. And soon --- very soon afterward --- Pahana will return. He shall bring with him the dawn of the Fifth World. He shall plant the seeds of his wisdom in their hearts. Even now the seeds are being planted. These shall smooth the way to the Emergence into the Fifth World.

excerpt from Hopi prophecy...

I lost what I was going to post through no fault of my own. Tried to get it back...

Here's what I saved... go figure:

But maybe there it is in a nutshell. You have seemed, from early on, endlessly optimistic (that folks may get what you're saying, at the least) and I like a fella who patiently explains things over and over and over and over before he gets fed up and quits.... and then comes back and explains it again.

//And soon --- very soon afterward --- Pahana will return. He shall bring with him the dawn of the Fifth World.//

yeah, right

(suck my balls)

I'm 38. I'm all over the place. I'll sleep 3 hours for 4 days at a time; I'll sleep 12 hours for 4 days at a time. I never know quite what'll be up. Benifits and liabilites of freelance work.

Dreaming.

The good news, as you know, is you can't escape it. If it is that intense, and you remember it, it not only glimpses your inner mind and preocupations, but renders you fully available to yourself!

I'm trying to lucid dream at will. I've done it, "naturally" since I was 16, but I haven't mastered making it volitionary yet. I have had, a lot, the blessing of realising I'm dreaming, and taking my mind out for either a joy ride or profound dives.

I just wanna be able to do that at will!

Posted by: Cat Chew at December 15, 2005 04:49 AM

I am a father. It teaches you to value even the most ignorant shit slathering drool monkeys for what wonderous beings they may become.

Does this satisfy?

I just wanna be able to do that at will!

Posted by: Manuel in Mexico City at December 15, 2005 04:53 AM

learn to be concious while you dream and you learn to dream while you're concious...mind you it carries with it a burden.

SHANGRI-LA!!

SHANGRI-LA!

"on earth as it is in heaven"

*

yeah, right

(suck my balls)

wait until science really starts fucking with nature

//I just wanna be able to do that at will!//

why?

wot benefit is there?

yeah, right

(suck my balls)

wait until science really starts fucking with nature

Posted by: air-ono at December 15, 2005 04:57 AM

first problem...you have no balls.

second problem...man is born of nature and thus what he does is also natural.

third problem...you have no balls.

everybody wants to ride the tiger

*step right up*

THRILL ME

KILL ME

Posted by: Nobody at December 15, 2005 05:02 AM

LOL!

*

(shangi-la!)

I wonder at what wonderous thing you might one day become ono...

hmmm...

maybe a discarded tin can in the gutter

"Only those who have learned to live on the land where the waters run pure... will find sanctuary. Go to where the eagles fly, to where the wolf roams, to where the bear lives. Here you will find life because they will always go to where the water is pure and the air can be breathed. Live where the trees, the lungs of this earth, purify the air. Go to where the trees give, from their breath to you, the cleansing and the purity, to where they protect you from the plagues... Snow is the great purifier. Go to where the blanket heals. Learn to live in these places. You will live through the changes... There is a time coming, beyond the weather. The veil between the physical and the spiritual world is thinning; it is coming back to life..."

Seneca prophecy

I am a father. It teaches you to value even the most ignorant shit slathering drool monkeys for what wonderous beings they may become.

Does this satisfy?

Um, nah. How is this different from being any other sort of decent human being?

don't have far to go

*JUMP!* (sforzando)

*a leap of faith*

*a can of coke*

Of course (and I don't mean to make light!)

Knowledge carries its own burden. But here's a thought: if --we-- can surpass the burdens of knowledge to make it ever heavier and more potent, does not argue for a sortta Big Bang theory of knowledge? It'll keep expanding. Its up to us to realise what's going on as we ourselves are the unseen mover of that expansion?

Zen and Tao, by the way, 'buddy, are my stuff these days. In Mex, I was of course raise Catholic. In the Orient I encountered Buddhism, the Vedas, animism (as in Shinto, but We mexicans have our own HUGE animistic spiritual connection... then there are the Balinese : ), Islam for certain, in Malaysia and Indonesia.

And it all, if you destill it and separate curd from whey, comes down to the same millenary (astounding, even Heisnberg, Hubble, Einstein, and Crick and Watson were and are astounded)knowledge that actually evolves about as fast as our brain has. 6,000 years of civilisation, of our "writing down our dream journal" as a species, is actually a bit laughable. Y'know?

In the 1920s, the Apache elder Stalking Wolf, who was the mentor of master tracker Tom Brown, Jr., received this horrid vision of the self-destruction of white men in North America. Only one sign remains to be fulfilled before the Purification begins:

"This will be the first sign. There will come starvation before and after this starvation, but none will capture the attention of the world with such impact as does this one. The children of the Earth will know the lessons that are held in all of this pain and death, but the world will only see it as drought and famine, blaming Nature instead of itself.”

"It is during the years of the famine, the first sign, that man will be plagued by a disease... that will sweep the land and terrorize the masses. The white coats [doctors] will have no answers for the people and a great cry will arise across the land. The disease will be born of monkeys, drugs and sex. It will destroy man from the inside, making common sickness a killing disease. Mankind will bring this disease upon himself as a result of his life, his worship of sex and drugs, and a way of life away from Nature. This, too, is a part of the first warning, but again man will not heed this warning and he will continue to worship the false gods of sex and the unconscious spirit of drugs.

"From this time, when the stars bleed, to the fourth and final sign will be four seasons of peace. It is in these four seasons that the children of the Earth must live deep in the wild places and find a new home, close to the Earth and the Creator. It is only the children of the Earth who will survive, and they must live the philosophy of the Earth, never returning to the thinking of man. And survival will not be enough, for the children of the Earth must also live close to the spirit. So tell them not to hesitate if and when this third sign becomes manifest in the stars, for there are but four seasons to escape.

"The fourth and final sign will appear through the next ten winters following the night that the stars will bleed. During this time the Earth will heal itself and man will die. For those ten years the children of the Earth must remain hidden in the wild places, make no permanent camps,

Who is the number one?

Um, nah. How is this different from being any other sort of decent human being?

Posted by: Cat Chew at December 15, 2005 05:13 AM

It's taught me patience.

"does not argue for a sortta Big Bang theory of knowledge?"

A quantum informational theory with fractal permutations that oft seem to defy the laws of causality?

probably ;)

In each grain of sand resides all the knowledge that ever will be.

my alter-nic, spike

(blasphemy i know)

"It's taught me patience."

Ah. :)

I am not a prisoner. I’m a free man
And my blood is my own. Don’t care where the past was I know where I’m going.

...Don’t care where the past was I know where I’m going.

Posted by: Spike at December 15, 2005 05:28 AM

I hope you're correct and I wish you well.

Nobody,

Will it be starvation? Or will we poison ours and the species we depend on's sustenance supply?

The way things are going, I hold most prophecies (thankfully, in a sense of quasi-invalidation) wrong. But just in the litteral sense.

I think we'll poison ourselves out of communal greed long before we can starve ourselves out.

Again that Harvey Keitel "Rising Sun" quote, paraphrased:
=====================
"Sushi? If I have a craving for mercury, I'll eat a thermometer."
=====================

I'm not a number. I'm a free man. Live my life where I want to. You'd better scratch me from your black book Coz' I'll run rings around you

"The scene instantly began to fade and dissolve, and I at last saw nothing but the rising, curling vapor I at first beheld. This also disappeared, and I found myself once more gazing upon the mysterious visitor, who, in the same voice I had heard before, said, 'Son of the Republic, what you have seen is thus interpreted. Three great perils will come upon the republic. The most fearful for her is the third. But the whole world united shall not prevail against her. Let every child of the republic learn to live for God, his land and Union.' With these words the vision vanished, and I started from my seat and felt that I had seen a vision wherein had been shown me the birth, the progress, and destiny of the United States."

prophecy of George Washington...self intepretted.

By the way. Anyone notice Spike? Is he a Bot?

Not to be anticlimatic. I am not going home anytime soon except for a vacation around the new year. I don't know when we will return from exile on a more permanent basis. Other than that I am still a rebel or at least I look the part.

Posted by: Spike at December 15, 2005 05:32 AM

(lol)

"I know what I want - but I just don’t know

How to,.... go about gettin’ it"

MANIC DEPRESSION ~(hendrix)

Posted by: Manuel in Mexico City at December 15, 2005 05:32 AM

There are many ways to die...

and prophecy needs not be any more than forethought...You make predictions all day long...with every step you take you predict the possible outcome of striding forward or falling on your ass...It need not require magic.

I am just a frustrated mess.

On Christmas night in 1882, the Mormon Bishop Charles D. Evans had a vision in which he saw what is now our present and near future:

"He replied, 'These are the chains with which certain sons of the Republic, who have tasted the fruit of the tree of liberty, desire to bind their fellows. These are they who seek to subvert the cause of human freedom. These seek to enslave one portion of the children of freedom who differ from them in religious belief and practice. Know thou, my son, that their object is filthy lucre. They plot to take away human rights, and to destroy the freedom of the soul, to possess the homes of the industrious without fee or reward. Their souls shall be in derision, and the heavens shall laugh at their folly. Their calamity slumbereth not. But cast thine eyes eastward and look.'

"I looked and beheld that the bands that held society together during the reign of the republic, were snapped asunder. Society had broken loose from all restraints of principle and good conscience. Brotherhood had dissolved. Respect for common rights and even the rights of life and property had fled from the land. I saw faction after faction arise and contend with each other. Political strife was everywhere. Father and son alike contended in these awful feuds. The spirit of deadly hate... passed through the Republic. Blood was written every banner. The spirit of bloodshed appeared to possess every heart.

"Turning to the person in white I exclaimed, 'Surely this means the total destruction of our nation."'

"Touching my eyes with his finger, he replied: 'Look again.'

"I looked and beheld that many who were angry with the rulers of the Republic, for the subversion of the Constitutional law, and their wholesale plunder of the public moneys, arose and proclaimed themselves the friends of the Constitution in its original form. These looked around for some others to sustain the country's flag inviolate, pledging themselves and their fortunes and sacred honours to that end.

"Oh just shut up, you stupid stupid people. Shut up. Just shut the hell up right now. Shut up. Fucking idiots!" - God, answering your prayers

By the way. Anyone notice Spike? Is he a Bot?

Posted by: Manuel in Mexico City at December 15, 2005 05:34 AM

I am just a frustrated mess.

Posted by: Spike at December 15, 2005 05:41 AM

I hate to mention it, but tell the truth and shame the devil, I feel a bit antsy about you two and BobZipCode and Mel who threatened my OS. Go figure...

That doesn't sound like God at all.

First, Sorry don't mean to give ya the wiggins. The frustrated mess thing was just part of the Hendrix song. Plus who is BobZipCode? Also what is an OS?

Some prophecy is merely wishes waiting to be self fulfilled...

Brigham Young ~

Guided by revelation, Brigham Young led a group of Mormons to Promontory Point overlooking Utah’s Great Salt Lake, where they founded Salt Lake City. Young left this prophecy among his Discourses:

"All that you know now can scarcely be called a preface to the sermon that will be preached with fire and sword, tempests, earthquakes, hail, rain and fearful destruction. What matters the destruction of a few railway cars? You will hear of magnificent cities, now idolized by the people, sinking in the earth entombing its inhabitants. The sea will heave itself beyond its bounds, engulfing many cities. Famine will spread over the nation, and nation will rise against nation, kingdom against kingdom, states against states, in our own country and in foreign lands."

D. Modin

D. Modin is a well-known lecturer, astrologer, newspaper columnist, and author of Prophecy: 1973-2000. He received the following vision in 1947:

"I saw a new World War break out in the Pacific, its center in the Philippines. From there, it spread out to encircle the world. I saw on one side the Christian forces, and on the other side the Buddhist and Mohammedan forces. Throughout the world, I saw destruction of the land, industry at a standstill, and people being killed almost instantly, on a massive scale. I saw the people of a new faith in the far East looking to Palestine for safety.

"Then the war between the nations stopped, and I saw revolution in each of the nations and great natural upheavals, the intent of which seemed to be to break up the old conditions.

"I saw the International Boundary at Blaine, Washington, torn up clear across to Nova Scotia, where it disappeared. The American and Canadian governments broke up in chaos. I saw race rioting upon the American continent on a vast scale. I saw hunger and disease throughout the world. Strife and chaos swept away the world we know. It was my impression that from the start of the Third World War this was all a continuous panorama, with different stages of development appearing simultaneously. First, world conflagration, then the break-down of national governments, followed by starvation, disease, and natural disasters. Then the scene ended."

//By the way. Anyone notice Spike? Is he a Bot?//

LOL!!

CLASSIC!

One must also wonder at the perceptions of those that have since heard or read these prophecies and how it would effect the collective subconcious and thereby shape society and what we would call common knowledge....

//BobZipCode?//

"bob" the blogger, with a zip-code after his nic

Is he a good witch or a bad witch?

POWER TO THE BOTS!

Posted by: Spike at December 15, 2005 05:55 AM

bob's cool

u can check him out on last night's post-show blog

Then again not all prophecy is prophecy at all...

Edgar Cayce

"There must eventually come a revolution in this country --- and there will be a dividing of the sections as one against another. For these are the leveling means and manners to which men resort when there is plenty in some areas and a lack of sustenance in others."

"Well, I think I’ll go turn myself off,

And go on down

All the way down

Really ain’t no use in me hanging around

In your kinda scene" ~(Manic depression)

*

making whoopy to a tse-tse fly on a dry afternoon

(bathed in sweat)

"my true love sed to me"

GET STRONG or GET FUCKED

*ciao*

We each grasp the elephant and describe it as best we can...but we are all still blindmen...

later

MAN WANTS A WAR, OK, FINE, I GOT NOTHING ELSE TO DO FOR THE HOLIDAYS, LET'S HAVE US A WAR. GUESS SOMEONE FORGOT TO TELL THE JERK THAT WE AREADY HAVE A WAR, A REAL ONE, WITH DEAD PEOPLE AND ENDLESS SUFFERING, BUT OK, YOU BET, LET'S MAKE WAR ON CHRISTMAS. I'M READY. GOT THE REINDEER HEAD RIGHT HERE, I THINK I'M ON THE RIGHT STREET, SAM... BUT I LOST HIS ADDRESS. CAN'T VERY WELL PUT IT IN SNORKLEMAN'S BED IF I DON'T KNOW WHICH HOUSE IT IS. THE ELVEN LIBERATION FRONT IS PREPARED TO RISE UP AGAINST THE ANTI-WORKER UNION-BUSTING OPPRESSOR! DEATH TO THE FAT MAN AND HIS MAMMONITE MINIONS! ELVEN WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE! MUSTACHES AND NIXON MASKS ON ALL NATIVITIES! AVIATOR CAPS WITH GOGGLES, AND WHITE SCARVES FOR EVERY CRUCIFIED JESUS! PUT A TAIL FIN ON THAT CROSS - WHO WOULD JESUS BOMB? YEAH, I GOT HIS WAR ON CHRISTMAS RIGHT HERE IN MY CANDIED YULE SHORTS, DAMMIT! SNORKLEMAN'S GONNA FIND ANN COULTER'S PENIS IN HIS STOCKING, RIGHT NEXT TO THE BRONZE LOUFA! A BOX OF RUBBER "NOVELTY" OXYCONTIN FOR PIGBOY, GOTTA SPREAD THE HOLIDAY CHEER. LEAD LINED LEIDERHOSEN FOR ALL THE PRESIDENT'S MEN! JIHAD ON CHRISTMAS! AIIEEEE! AUTOGRAPHED PICTURES OF BIN LADEN FOR THE CHRISTIAN MEDIA SOLDIERS! CALL THE SEVEN HUNDRED CLUB AND TELL THEM YOU'RE GOING TO KILL YOUR EVIL JEW NEIGHBOR ON CHRISTMAS, FOR JESUS! YAY! CHRISTMAS MUST DIE, STAB IT IN THE EYE, PEE ON ITS HEAD, KICK IT TIL IT'S DEAD. IN THIS WAR IT IS NOT ENOUGH TO ACHIEVE OUR OBJECTIVES. IT IS NOT ENOUGH TO DEFEAT THE ENEMY. IT IS NOT ENOUGH TO DESTROY THE ENEMY. WE MUST ERASE THE EVIL CULT OF CHIRSTMAS FROM HISTORY ITSELF, REMOVING ALL TRACE THAT IT EVER EXISTED! HAHAHAHAHAHA! THEY STARTED THIS WAR, BUT WE WILL END IT, AND WITH IT, WE WILL END FOREVER THE TYRANNY OF CHRISTMAS!

Leave it to Christians to fuck up Christmass. :(

Whatever...

"...in the long run, we're all dead. "

You asshats are hilarious...

Ann Coulter qote of the day

"These liberals are fanatics about privacy when it comes to man-boy sex and stabbing forks into partially-born children. But a maid alleges that she bought Rush Limbaugh a few Percodans, and suddenly the government has declared a war on prescription painkillers."

http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/welcome.cgi

Rush is a Junkie

It is just a matter of time before they find blue and bloated on the bathroom floor. Some hero.

Sam: Repost

Look up Founder's Effect for your Galapagos question last night.

G'night/mornin' everyone : þ

Sam: Repost

Look up Founder's Effect for your Galapagos question last night. For the short of it, my first post here.

G'night/mornin' everyone : þ

Redneck Renegade
Forget Iraq. Merle Haggard says it's America that needs freeing.

That Haggard sees the war in Iraq as a giant suck hole draining America of life and liberty might be a kind of tipping point for how our country realigns its post-9/11 priorities. Perhaps old cowboy singers are the canaries in the coal mine of freedom. I would think George W. Bush and the Republicans would be concerned if they've lost Merle and Murtha, people with impeccable patriotic credentials of the old school. These are not the backbone-challenged cowards the GOP likes to paint the opposition as being. A Newsweek poll this month shows that 68 percent of Americans are dissatisfied with the way things are going in this country. That number includes a lot of folks who aren't your usual-suspect liberals.

http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0547/051123_news_mossback.php

Looks like the Crawford cowboy has got himself on the fightin’ side of Merle.

Yeah, men in position but backing away

Freedom is stuck in reverse

Let’s get out of Iraq and get back on the track

And let’s rebuild America first

http://www.sftt.us/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=113702&

Hey, Rush Is A Junkie

Drugs time after time...

Rush didn't care.

Now looks over his shoulder,

'Cause cops are standing there.

http://bootnewt.hostingzero.com/heyrushisajunkie.htm

There is even a band called Junkie Rush. LOL.

Nazi Christmas!

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/uah/uah14.htm

Dead, blue, and bloated. Just another dead doper. Poor Rush. I just hope that Hell is hot enough for him.

junkies, thieves, and male prostitutes. It ain't your Papa's GOP.

Posted by: Spike at December 15, 2005 07:27 AM

Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves, you hear it from the people in the town, they call us...

Posted by: celticman at December 15, 2005 06:43 AM

Often times, abusers will attempt to blame their abuse victims for their abuse.

Abusers attempt to claim some action or behavior of the victim as the cause of the abusers behavior.

This is of course false.

I know that as a free person, I resist abuse by not allowing abusers to define my behavior for me.

also

"Bareback Mountain" is a good joke.

Labor, disabled oppose Alito By Thomas Ferraro
Wed Dec 14, 7:01 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The nation's largest labor federation along with a coalition of groups that represent disabled Americans on Wednesday said they opposed U.S. Supreme Court nominee Samuel Alito, describing the 55-year-old conservative as a threat to worker and civil rights.

The AFL-CIO and National Coalition for Disability Rights criticized Alito's work as a federal appeals judge the past 15 years, charging he has often sided with employers over labor with an excessively restrictive view of federal law.

"Working families need and deserve Supreme Court justices who understand and respect the importance of hard-fought rights and protections, not justices who take an unduly narrow view of the law," John Sweeney, president of the more than 9-million-member AFL-CIO, wrote in a letter to U.S. senators.

Another problem looming, Alito!

I sure am going to miss Morning Sedition. I start nearly every day with it and end nearly every day with MRR.

Good Morning.

I think Janeane Garofalo thinks Rob Sheffield is J.D. Considine or something.

Senate Democrats again want oil execs investigated Wed Dec 14, 3:03 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Senate Democrats on Wednesday again demanded that the Justice Department investigate whether big oil company executives lied to Congress about their firms' involvement with a White House task force that developed the Bush administration's energy policy.

The lawmakers accused the heads of Exxon Mobil Corp., BP Plc's U.S. unit, ConocoPhillips, Chevron Corp and Shell Oil of lying during a Senate hearing in November when they said their companies did not participate in the energy task force headed by Vice President Dick Cheney.

The Washington Post later reported that a White House document showed many of the companies had met with the energy task force.

The executives stood by their initial statements when they were to asked to clarify them after The Post story came out. However, they admitted talking about various energy matters with members of the administration, including Cheney.

In a letter to U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales on Wednesday, the lawmakers said if witnesses believed the laws won't be enforced requiring truthful testimony to Congress, then Senate hearings will loose their usefulness and the chamber can't legislate.

LINK

Morning RW

Have you been lurking alot? Haven't seen you post much.

How's the new knee?

The fact of the matter is Rolling stones magazine did nothing to help the grassroots effort in 2002 or 2003. Nothing.

They barely had any political commentary in between their "hot" issues and cover issues with pop icons, so let's not mince words here.

They waited until it was too late to do anything.

And spare me the whole mundane cynical sarcasm of Sheffield's tongue-in-cheek prose. It's all fluff as far as I'm concerned. I don't find it entertaining, when I can't reasonable assume whether my money will be wasted on the artist's work.

This is the whole reason the magazine has credentials anyway. If they were a tabloid, the business would not them professional courtesy as they do.

No going back as far as the late 90's when very few people other than me, were paying attention to public laws like the 1996 Telecommunications acts, or legal cases like Ted Turner brought to the courts for precedent, I was the one writing letters to those who who might be the only ones to voice an opinion nationally.

And at the time, it was this mundane Viacom stuck-up nattitude...about the trivial trappings of the business, more than the cutting edge political commentary.

Thompson has written a book about Clinton, which wasn't a steady feature. PJ had quit. Bill had quit.

At best, maybe Playboy or Hustler were the last outlets for alternative press.

So don't go on national air Janeane and grasp for something that isn't there.

If you want to connect the dots, I'd suggest looking closely at something substantial.

Like for instance the millions of people willing to go along The Lie in this country.

Not whether I wrote a single e-mail to Sheffield telling him I hoped the building would come down with a missile.

Huge leap from insinuation to scapegoat there, missy.

Sheffield's an ass.

A Thousand Fists by Disturbed.

Awake by Godsmack.

Almost every song ever released by Staind.

These people deserve better for their efforts. I'm willing to put the smackdown for Ozzy on that one.

Because we were there...a long time before your feminism split the Democrat party in 2004.

The Truth On the Ground

We all know that when it comes to Iraq, the Democrats don't know what they're talking about... They just know that it benefits their party to be negative, negative, negative.

Well, Marine Major Ben Connable, on the eve of returning to Iraq for a third tour, reveals the truth on the ground in an article in The Washington Post...

He tells us that "The impression of Iraq as an unfathomable quagmire is false and dangerously misleading." Indeed, anyone who has followed our coverage of Iraq knows better than to call it a quagmire... It's the following sentiment by Connable which I think is really important:

"We can fail only if the false imagery of quagmire takes hold and our national political will is broken. In that event, both the Iraqi people and the American troops will pay a long-term price for our shortsighted delusion."

read the whole article here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/13/AR2005121301502.html

Furthermore.

Is it just me, or are we the Jew race card again?

junkies, thieves, and male prostitutes. It ain't your Papa's GOP.

Posted by: Spike at December 15, 2005 07:27 AM

here is another article for ya spike

seems Ms Ann feels left out:

WHY CAN'T I GET ARRESTED?
December 14, 2005

I'm getting a little insulted that no Democratic prosecutor has indicted me. Liberals bring trumped-up criminal charges against all the most dangerous conservatives. Why not me?

Democrat prosecutor Barry Krischer has spent two years and hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to find some criminal charge to bring against Rush Limbaugh. Political hack Ronnie Earle spent three years and went through six grand juries to indict Tom DeLay. Liberals spent the last two years fantasizing in public about Karl Rove being indicted. Newt Gingrich was under criminal investigation for 3 1/2 years back in the '90s when liberals were afraid of him. Final result: No crime.

http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/welcome.cgi

yes, that right..your courtroom tactics are being giggled at by Ann , as well they should be, laughable and pathetic

And of course, everybody cool in the Reagan administration was indicted. Or at least investigated and persecuted. Reagan's sainted attorney general Ed Meese was criminally investigated for 14 months before the prosecutor announced that he didn't have anything (but denounced Meese as a crook anyway).

I note that nobody ever wanted to indict Bob Dole or Gerald Ford (except, of course, other Republicans).

In the Nixon administration, liberals even brought "Deep Throat" up on charges — and he was one of you people! What, now I'm not even as hip as "Deep Throat"?

I've done a lot for my country. I think I deserve to be indicted, too. How am I supposed to show my face around Washington if I haven't been "frog-marched" out of my office by some liberal D.A. looking to move to D.C. for the next Democratic administration? What's a girl have to do to become a "person of interest" around here? Mr. Krischer, where do I go to get rid of my reputation?

http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/welcome.cgi

The only difference between the Stalin-era prosecutions — also enthusiastically defended by liberals — and these prosecutions is that it's possible to get acquitted here. But the validity of the charges is about the same

http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/welcome.cgi

ouch!!

Last night Seder went on the air...and said people under the age of 40 tolerate gays.

He said the reason they put these antigay marriage proposals on the ballot...was to call out the "whackos" and any other large assortment of personal insults on Republicans.

No, Sam. The ballot was there, because it's any factions right...should they gain enough power in their party...to propose something be put up to vote.

It's not to "expose" Christian fundamentalists bent on whatever secret agenda that led to the invasion of Iraq or a host of other changes in law, mitigated, written, or otherwised voted upon by a MAJORITY.

Where do you exactly get off saying something as paranoid as that?

Then mentioning how the Jews and Christmas are made into the pariah of the mainstream?

Let me tell you something, buddy. That lady who called you at the end of the show last night. From South Carolina.

She wasn't thanking you for what you did on CNN. She was thanking you for what you did for the Republicans.

Linking Democrats to the word Underground, is exactly what they want.

Because it splits the plurality of my party.

That's what pisses me.

It has nothing to do with God.

It's the fact you look like a half-brained nitwit on national television.

Go back uin the blog and take a look at what some people were saying.

The ones who weren't stroking you, I mean.

The ones who are tired of half-assed armchair psychiatrist comments from pseudo-intellectual actresses, bewildering and confusing the swing vote in this country.

Race card.

Engjoy your fuckin' Christmas break asshole.

Posted by: -B at December 15, 2005 08:35 AM

damn dude...seriously..you a democrat?

Morning Sedition's last segement?

Bit City, Baby.

The fact of the matter is...

In 2004.

John Kerry did not provide a solution other than "multi-lateralism" in the context of any Iraq objectives. Whether that means working more with the UN or not, writing whatever Security Council resolutions or not...

All that meant to anybody, was his solution was...I'm an alternative to the Republicans.

What.

I didn't see anything ready to go the UN.

I didn't hear anything from him other than he would have the troops pulled out within four years.

And it was those specific comments that turned him exactly into same thing as Howard Dean.

And Howard Dean was rejected flat out by the Democrats who knew better, if they expected to win.

This.

This is what happened Seder.

The anti-war movement jacked my nominee in 2004.

We could have won that election had he just stayed with the "multi-lateral" means nothing approach.

Instead.

NOW screwed over organized labor.

And I'm telling you buddy. You too Garofalo.

It ain't me you need to watch.

I hate my media...and whatever the fuck silly ass relationship you think I have with it Janeane...

But that's a spit in the bucket compared to the rage right now against the upper class.

Statistics:

The Drum Major Institute 2005 Injustice index

Increase in the number of hungry households since 1999: 43 Percent

Number of uninsured Americans: 45.8 million

Increase this represents from 2000: 7 million

Percentage of personal bankruptcies that can be traced back to a serious illness or other medical cause: 54.5 percent

Percentage of these medical debtors who went without food before declaring bankruptcy: 19.4 percent

Number of Americans living in poverty: 37 million

LINK

Posted by: -B at December 15, 2005 08:45 AM

well like it or not ..youre right...the democrat party is the party associated with garafalo and the left wing fringe movement in thie country...question is..where do folks like you go from here?

youre not getting the party back and starting a thrd party is certain death ...so they got ya dude

Look at who you are.

I've been warning you and warning you and warning you.

You're a Jew.

She's a method actress that played the girlfriend of Abbie Hoffman in a damn movie, man.

Wasn't that guy run over by a car or something?

Look.

Doing the Jew vs Christian, blame the theocrats at this time of year may look good for leftists...

But you forget.

Look at who you are.

You have to be credible. You have to be inciteful and sharp. Worthy.

Nothing good can playing the comedy angle on that. Nothing.

Not enough people listen, let alone read this blog...to make it worthwhile.

It the end you damage more...than help.

I keep telling you.

Even your scientist on last night...warned you about the insults.

as the poverty rates climbs for the fourth year in a row...

Initial Unemployment claims up - at 329,000 for latest week

December 15, 2005 UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE WEEKLY CLAIMS REPORT

SEASONALLY ADJUSTED DATA

In the week ending Dec. 10, the advance figure for seasonally adjusted initial claims was 329,000, an increase of 1,000 from the previous week's revised figure of 328,000. The 4-week moving average was 328,750, an increase of 6,000 from the previous week's revised average of 322,750.

The advance seasonally adjusted insured unemployment rate was 2.0 percent for the week ending Dec. 3, unchanged from the prior week's unrevised rate of 2.0 percent.

The advance number for seasonally adjusted insured unemployment during the week ending Dec. 3 was 2,606,000, an increase of 21,000 from the preceding week's revised level of 2,585,000. The 4-week moving average was 2,682,250, a decrease of 39,750 from the preceding week's revised average of 2,722,000.

Will he claim that it was just an honest mistake and an intelligence failure next time as well?

Bush says Iran a 'real threat'

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President George W. Bush on Wednesday called Iran a "real threat" and lashed out at President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad over the country's nuclear program and calls for the destruction of Israel.

"Iran's a real threat," Bush told Fox News in an interview in which he repeated his charge that Iran was part of an "axis of evil" along with North Korea and prewar Iraq. "I called it part of the 'axis of evil' for a reason," Bush said.

"I'm concerned about a theocracy that has got little transparency, a country whose president has declared the destruction of Israel as part of their foreign policy, and a country that will not listen to the demands of the free world to get rid of its ambitions to have a nuclear weapon," Bush said in the interview.

In dealing with Iran, Bush said he continued "to work the diplomatic front," but that his objective was to "end tyranny."

Really...what will his excuse be next time?...Start your guessing now...The wagering begins soon...

Bush defends Iraq war, says he will attack another nation if necessary

WASHINGTON (AFP) - One day before Iraq's historic parliamentary elections, US President George W. Bush defiantly defended his case for war and said he would preemptively attack another country if he deemed it necessary.

In remarks aimed at shoring up faltering US support for the conflict, Bush also accepted responsibility for relying on "wrong" intelligence about Saddam Hussein's alleged weapons programs to order the March 2003 invasion.

Still, "in an age of terrorism and weapons of mass destruction, if we wait for threats to fully materialize, we will have waited too long," Bush said in the fourth and final speech in a series ahead of Thursday's elections.

The US president, who embraced preemptive war as US strategy after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, did not name any potential targets but said the vote would put pressure on the governments of Iran and Syria.

"We are living through a watershed moment in the story of freedom," he said. Iraq "will be a model for the Middle East. Freedom in Iraq will inspire reformers from Damascus to Tehran."

hi there nobody...how ya been buddy?

Posted by: celticman at December 15, 2005 08:49 AM

A better question would be...Where do YOU go from here?

Zogby: Democratic Prospects Brighten Heading Into 2006 - GOP Lags

Released December 14, 2005

A key measurement of partisan advantage in the United States Congress shows Democrats with a substantial lead in public opinion as the nation heads into 2006 and the important mid-term election season, a new Zogby International survey shows.

Asked if they would "definitely" or "probably" vote for the Democrat or the Republican in next year's fall congressional election, 48% said the Democrat would get their support, compared to 40% who said they would vote for the Republican. While 3% said they plan on supporting a third-party candidate, 9% said they were unsure.

The year-end survey by Zogby International included 1,013 interviews nationwide, and carries a margin of error of plus or minus 3.1 percentage points.

The poll shows weakness for Republicans among demographic groups that are typically supportive. In "red" states that favored George W. Bush in the presidential election last year, generic congressional Republicans hold a 46% to 43% advantage over their generic Democratic counterparts. But in "blue" states won by Democrat John Kerry last year, the Democratic lead is much larger - there the congressional Democrat leads by a 54% to 34% margin.

Posted by: Nobody at December 15, 2005 09:03 AM

im doing fine , you still believe the polls huh?

well as i remember Zogby had Kerry winng by a significant margin

when one doesnt kearn from history what happens, thats right it repeats itself

Protecting Public Lands
In a legislative season that has produced few victories for the environment, the sudden death of a destructive mining provision that could have opened up millions of acres of public land to commercial exploitation is cause for celebration.

The provision was inserted into the budget reconciliation bill - always a handy hiding place for ideas that could never stand up to public scrutiny on their own - by Representatives Jim Gibbons of Nevada and Richard Pombo of California, both Republicans. Mr. Gibbons's decision to withdraw it reflected not so much a change of heart as a recognition of political reality. Their stealth proposal had inspired intense opposition among hunters, anglers, governors, local officials and countless ordinary citizens who argued that there were many nobler uses for the public lands than serving as a profit center for commercial interests.

The Gibbons-Pombo provision would have allowed the holders of mining claims to buy land outright instead of leasing it - a radical departure from present practice. It would also have amended the General Mining Law of 1872 to allow purchases not just for mining, but for any purpose that would "facilitate sustainable economic development." By some calculations, that dangerously vague formulation would have exposed at least 6 million acres and perhaps as much as 350 million acres to commercial exploitation. Even conservative Western lawmakers who do not usually favor environmental causes saw this for what it was: a potentially unparalleled raid on America's public lands.

The controversy stirred by the Gibbons-Pombo maneuver has been so great that there is even reason to hope that proposals for real reform of the antiquated mining law will at last receive a respectable hearing.

Representatives Nick Rahall II and Jay Inslee, both Democrats, and Christopher Shays, a Republican, have put forward a bill to give permanent protection to lands that are now vulnerable to claims, like wildlife refuges and roadless areas of the national forests. The bill would also require "suitability" reviews before mining could proceed, and would allow the secretary of the interior to withdraw lands judged unsuitable

So anyway.

My hands are freezing. I'm trying to type, but I'm leaving out a lot of words.

Cobbled together a black Strat tonight.

I scavenged two copy strats for parts.

I took off the rosewood neck, then put on a maple.

The parts weren't exactly interchangeable, so I really crunched them together.

I measured the resistance on my pickups. They are around 6 to 7 ohm a piece. Later on, I'm going to need to insulate this cavity.

The black strat compared to my light blue one...is almost hollowed out. I think Stevie's Vanilla Fudge (isn't that the name of that band?) strat was hollowed out by Charlie in Dallas.

This wood is a little denser than the Mexican strat. It's from Korea. I'm wondering how it will sound, but I need to eventually shield it like I was saying.

I think I mentioned this before, but I shaved almost to the point of scalloping the neck. The first seven frets. Then the frets are almost worn to nothing too.

However this new neck sits a lot deeper in the body, so the action may buzz. I'm not sure.

I'll probably bow it out with the truss rod, so the strings sit fairly high towards the nut, then as they come down the neck...it'll be good for lead guitar.

I'm not sure how bright it will be or whatever, including the hollowed out body, but this is a weird Frankenstein guitar. After I polish the saddles, shiekld it, then set it up...it'll be a good guitar for maybe slide I think.

Who knows. I'll have to compare it to my Ash strat. That one has a rosewood neck.

This Blackie sorta reminds me of the alter-reality of a Hendrix style white strat. Maple snap and everything.

I'm going to pull the bridge tight up against bosdy, then see if it's good for lead before I try setting it up for slide as a last resort before throwing it in the garbage.

I only paid a $100 for it anyway.

☼☼ thursday, rhythmic moon 03 ~ white crystal world-bridger ☼☼

~ Nine in the third place means: ~

No plain not followed by a slope.

No going not followed by a return.

He who remains persevering in danger

Is without blame.

Do not complain about this truth;

Enjoy the good fortune you still possess.

Iraq war veteran to challenge GOP congresswoman in Kentucky

An Iraq war veteran unhappy with President Bush's handling of the conflict said Wednesday that he plans to challenge U.S. Rep. Anne Northup, a close Bush ally.

"It became a realization that we are less safe than we were, not more safe," said Horne, a longtime political independent who recently joined the Democratic Party.

Northup has been a staunch supporter of Bush's Iraq policy. Horne said she has "become nothing but a rubber stamp" for her fellow Republican. Horne said members of Congress "take an oath to the country, not to the president."

Northup, a prolific fundraiser in her fifth term in the Louisville-area district, "seems to be more interested in supporting the agendas of people who gave her money," Horne said.

Protecting Public Lands Link

Which letter is fake?

when one doesnt kearn from history what happens, thats right it repeats itself

Posted by: celticman at December 15, 2005 09:06 AM

12-13-05: Devastating hack proven

Due to contractual non-performance and security design issues, Leon County (Florida) supervisor of elections Ion Sancho has announced that he will never again use Diebold in an election. He has requested funds to replace the Diebold system from the county. On Tuesday, the most serious “hack” demonstration to date took place in Leon County. The Diebold machines succumbed quickly to alteration of the votes. This comes on the heels of the resignation of Diebold CEO Wally O'Dell, and the announcement that a stockholder's class action suit has been filed against Diebold by Scott & Scott. Further “hack” testing on additional vulnerabilities is tentatively scheduled before Christmas in the state of California.

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/14/silent-night-fraud

On Friday, Bill O'Reilly took to the airwaves to share the latest "War on Christmas" outrage:

"In Dodgeville, Wisconsin, the Ridgewood Elementary School has changed the song Silent Night to Cold in the Night and forced the kids to sing the lyrics, "Cold in the night, No one in sight, Winter winds whirl and bite," to the tune of the original Silent Night."

O'Reilly was by no means the only conservative to repeat this story. During a Dec. 10 appearance on Fox News, Mathew Staver of the Liberty Counsel said the presentation at Ridgewood Elementary had "no balance here. They have no Christian Christmas carols." He even threatened to sue the school:

"People are outraged. We sent a demand letter asking them to immediately change the song and allow the actual lyrics of "Silent Night," and if they do not, if they insist on this ridiculous course of action, we'll file a federal lawsuit."

As it turns out, the entire story is a fraud.

Ridgeway Elementary didn't change the lyrics to "Silent Night." What they did was perform a 1988 copyrighted play called "The Little Tree's Christmas Gift."

That play actually contains numerous songs about Christmas, including the grand finale, an audience-led group singing of "We Wish You A Merry Christmas." The play's creator, Dwight Elrich, happens to lead the New Covenant Singers of Bel Air Presbyterian Church in Los Angeles.

In fact, "The Little Tree's Christmas Gift" has been performed in several churches, including the Oakwood Forest Christian Church in Kingsport, Tennessee, the St. Anthony Parish School in Des Moines, Iowa, and St. Mark's Episcopal Church of Abeline, Texas.

So why are the Silent Night lyrics changed in "Little Tree's Christmas"? Because the play is about a small, lonely Christmas tree that is told it is "too scraggly, it will never sell." That character sings the revised lyrics - "Cold in the night, No one in sight, Winter winds whirl and bite" - in a scene lamenting his sad state. The rewording has absolu

Crap - well that looked like shit......

Sorry.

Hey N!

I would like to ask you the following question for two primary reasons 1) you have a lot more experience (in general) than I do...2)I'm gathering as many diverse opinions as possible before taking a decision.

I would like to apply/lobby for an internship. It would be best if it was econ/poli-sci/law related.

I have a very narrow (although probably better than most) possibility with our attorney general...I could relatively easily secure a position with a "family friend" lobbyist (which would suit my "behind the scenes" kind of personality well - but I likely would end up having more fun than learning stuff), or I rely on school channels and leave it to chance.

I don't know the school channels yet - find out today around 11:00

I would lean toward the lobbyist - but that is the easy choice - no fear or trepidation...but then who says I need to fear to learn?

What do you think you would do?

TAKE TWO:

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/14/silent-night-fraud

On Friday, Bill O'Reilly took to the airwaves to share the latest "War on Christmas" outrage:

"In Dodgeville, Wisconsin, the Ridgewood Elementary School has changed the song Silent Night to Cold in the Night and forced the kids to sing the lyrics, "Cold in the night, No one in sight, Winter winds whirl and bite," to the tune of the original Silent Night."

O'Reilly was by no means the only conservative to repeat this story. During a Dec. 10 appearance on Fox News, Mathew Staver of the Liberty Counsel said the presentation at Ridgewood Elementary had "no balance here. They have no Christian Christmas carols." He even threatened to sue the school:

"People are outraged. We sent a demand letter asking them to immediately change the song and allow the actual lyrics of "Silent Night," and if they do not, if they insist on this ridiculous course of action, we'll file a federal lawsuit."

As it turns out, the entire story is a fraud.

Ridgeway Elementary didn't change the lyrics to "Silent Night." What they did was perform a 1988 copyrighted play called "The Little Tree's Christmas Gift."

That play actually contains numerous songs about Christmas, including the grand finale, an audience-led group singing of "We Wish You A Merry Christmas." The play's creator, Dwight Elrich, happens to lead the New Covenant Singers of Bel Air Presbyterian Church in Los Angeles.

In fact, "The Little Tree's Christmas Gift" has been performed in several churches, including the Oakwood Forest Christian Church in Kingsport, Tennessee, the St. Anthony Parish School in Des Moines, Iowa, and St. Mark's Episcopal Church of Abeline, Texas.

So why are the Silent Night lyrics changed in "Little Tree's Christmas"? Because the play is about a small, lonely Christmas tree that is told it is "too scraggly, it will never sell." That character sings the revised lyrics - "Cold in the night, No one in sight, Winter winds whirl and bite" - in a scene lamenting his sad state. The rewording has absolutely nothing to do with "secularizing"

Grrreat Sedition today!!!!

(nice to see you've been postin' over at the MS blog, SJ...Lotta smart, good people there)

I loved the "corp-exec" gag...

God, I'm gonna miss this show.

Where is that dumbass anonymous that keeps on my tail over lifespans?

Premature birth rates soaring, with babies' long-term outlook poor

Never before has this nation, despite having one of the world's most advanced medical systems, cared for so many babies born prematurely. More than 12 percent of all births occur at or before 37 weeks' gestation, or at least three weeks before full gestational age, almost all of them requiring extra, often intensive, medical care.

According to government statistics released this fall, the number of American babies born prematurely last year topped a historic half-million mark. Hospital costs alone for preemies totaled $18.1 billion in 2003, according to the March of Dimes. Added to that are the costs of parents' lost work time and health-care services for children after the initial hospitalization.

With the long-term effects of prematurity becoming ever clearer, doctors, policy experts and researchers are struggling anew to prevent the problem. But first they must better understand its causes.

"The results of prevention efforts for prematurity in the past haven't been spectacular," says Dr. Gabriel Escobar, an expert on premature birth and a research scientist at the Kaiser Permanente Division of Research in Oakland, Calif. "But we are seeing more and better-conducted research to try to figure out what we can do. There is a sense of urgency."

how have you been nobody...you do have some sense of normality in that cold calculating , (however wrong and disturbed,) mind of yours huh?

Following the money...

Reversing Its Stance, Ford WILL Advertise In Gay Magazines

WASHINGTON -- Advertisements featuring Ford Motor Co.'s eight vehicle brands will run in gay publications, the automaker said Wednesday, acting after gay rights groups complained when Jaguar and Land Rover pulled their spots.

Ford is not ordering those luxury brands to resume their specific ads. Rather, the company's ads in the publications will promote all of its lines, which also include Ford, Lincoln, Mazda, Mercury, Volvo and Aston Martin.

Last week, Ford cited a need to reduce its marketing costs in explaining why it no longer would advertise Jaguar and Land Rover in several gay publications.

On Wednesday, Ford wrote the gay rights groups that the luxury brands "made a business decision about their media plans and it would be inconsistent with the way we manage our business to direct them to do otherwise."

Reversing Its Stance, Ford WILL Advertise In Gay Magazines

WASHINGTON -- Advertisements featuring Ford Motor Co.'s eight vehicle brands will run in gay publications, the automaker said Wednesday, acting after gay rights groups complained when Jaguar and Land Rover pulled their spots.

Posted by: Nobody at December 15, 2005 09:20 AM

hooray...a private business was strong-armed into going against its wishes

cant have business owners deciding on what ads are suitable for their magazines...thats almost like democracy and

how hypocritical of you..what if the roles were reversed and smith and wesson strong armed their ads in "Gay man weekly"....you would be crying to the heavens

The war on Christmas ....

Never had a problem in all these years, now there is a problem. Why? Where did all this start?

This whole thing is rediculous! A smoke screen to cover something else.

How many republicans are being investigated, under indictment?

Lets put together a Wado list on this.

Scooter Libby

Frist

DeLay

Cunningham

Ney

Just off the top of my head. Add to it bloggers.

This whole thing is rediculous! A smoke screen to cover something else.

Posted by: toniD at December 15, 2005 09:31 AM

then why my dear tonid are my little ones coming home from school and saying the word holiday rather than Christams

why is it called winter break instead of Christmas brak as it used to be named?

oh there is a war on christianity and Christmas falls right in there...nice try though

how have you been nobody...you do have some sense of normality in that cold calculating , (however wrong and disturbed,) mind of yours huh?

Posted by: celticman at December 15, 2005 09:19 AM

You still in love with Coulter? Perhaps you should consider some things...

What Are the Signs and Symptoms of Hypothyroidism?

enlarged or prominent adams apple, husky voice, mood swings, mental sluggishness...

btw the word holidays means literally holy days...

lol..coulter is amn and a nazi..lol...youve come a long way man

lol..coulter is amn and a nazi..lol...youve come a long way man

Posted by: celticman at December 15, 2005 09:46 AM

I don't suppose you even understood a word of what I said?

hypothyroidism is more prevalent in women than men...symptoms include heavy menstrual flow and behavioral problems including unusual aggressive behaviors marked by violent thoughts, memory loss and dementia...

Former President Bush became seriously ill of the same dietary effected disease during his term in office and finally got treatment...(he wouldn't eat broccoli remember?)

Why? Where did all this start?

Posted by: toniD at December 15, 2005 09:31 AM

------------------------------------------------

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth; the earth was waste and void;...

A Religious Protest Largely From the Left

When hundreds of religious activists try to get arrested today to protest cutting programs for the poor, prominent conservatives such as James Dobson, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell will not be among them.

That is a great relief to Republican leaders, who have dismissed the burgeoning protests as the work of liberals. But it raises the question: Why in recent years have conservative Christians asserted their influence on efforts to relieve Third World debt, AIDS in Africa, strife in Sudan and international sex trafficking -- but remained on the sidelines while liberal Christians protest domestic spending cuts? Conservative Christian groups such as Focus on the Family say it is a matter of priorities, and their priorities are abortion, same-sex marriage and seating judges who will back their position against those practices.

"It's not a question of the poor not being important or that meeting their needs is not important," said Paul Hetrick, a spokesman for Focus on the Family, Dobson's influential, Colorado-based Christian organization. "But whether or not a baby is killed in the seventh or eighth month of pregnancy, that is less important than help for the poor? We would respectfully disagree with that."

Jim Wallis, editor of the liberal Christian journal Sojourners and an organizer of today's protest, was not buying it. Such conservative religious leaders "have agreed to support cutting food stamps for poor people if Republicans support them on judicial nominees," he said. "They are trading the lives of poor people for their agenda. They're being, and this is the worst insult, unbiblical."

there is a war on christianity and Christmas falls right in there...nice try though

Posted by: celticman at December 15, 2005 09:38 AM

-------------------------------------------------

If I was a salesman I'd be looking for people just like you.

how hypocritical of you..what if the roles were reversed and smith and wesson strong armed their ads in "Gay man weekly"....you would be crying to the heavens

Posted by: celticman at December 15, 2005 09:28 AM

You don't want gay people to have guns?

I wonder why...

btw how's your thyroid?

Been eating your vegetables?

But I thought they got Saddam and fixed it all...

U.S. Envoy Calls Torture at Two Iraqi Prisons Severe, Extensive

U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad on Tuesday described torture cases discovered in Iraqi police prisons as both extensive and severe, saying more than 120 abused detainees had been found in the two centers run by the Shiite-led government that have been inspected so far.

Khalilzad rejected Interior Ministry officials' suggestion that any mistreatment of prisoners had been mild, saying the abuse found was "far worse than slapping around."

U.S. and Iraqi authorities said the latest search, an inspection of an Interior Ministry special commando unit's detention center in Baghdad on Thursday, found 13 men who required immediate medical treatment among more than 600 detainees in badly crowded conditions. An Iraqi official who U.S. authorities have said had firsthand knowledge of the search said 12 of the men had been subjected to torture that included broken bones, pulled fingernails, cigarettes stamped into skin and electric shocks.

Khalilzad said at a news conference that more than 100 of roughly 170 detainees found last month in the first surprise raid on an Interior Ministry prison had been abused. Officials and witnesses at the time spoke of seeing a number of beaten, emaciated men at that center, a previously secret, underground facility holding mostly Sunni Arabs at an Interior Ministry compound in Baghdad. Interior Minister Bayan Jabr said then that only seven torture cases had been found in the November raid.

Someones been feeling a little heat and doesn't want any part of the shitstorm he sees coming...

Bush can settle CIA leak riddle, Novak says

Newspaper columnist Robert Novak is still not naming his source in the Valerie Plame affair, but he says he is pretty sure the name is no mystery to President Bush.
"I'm confident the president knows who the source is," Novak told a luncheon audience at the John Locke Foundation in Raleigh on Tuesday. "I'd be amazed if he doesn't."

"So I say, 'Don't bug me. Don't bug Bob Woodward. Bug the president as to whether he should reveal who the source is.' "

Novak said his role in the Plame affair "snowballed out of proportion" as a result of a "campaign by the left."

But he also blamed "extremely bad management of the issue by the White House. Once you give an issue to a special prosecutor, you lose control of it."

Wish in one hand...

Republicans Say Bush Needs to Do More to Rebuild Iraq Support

Dec. 15 (Bloomberg) -- President George W. Bush's effort to rebuild support for his Iraq policy has only partly satisfied fellow Republicans, who say he still must do more to explain his strategy.

``The president has responded to calls for a great deal more information, candor, inclusion -- and I think that's been helpful,'' Republican Senator Richard Lugar of Indiana, chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, said yesterday after the speech. ``But much more will be required.''

``What Bush has done is initiate another phase in the debate about Iraq,'' said Vin Weber, a Washington lobbyist and former Republican member of Congress who is close to the administration.

Bush has ``not yet'' swayed public opinion in his favor on Iraq, Weber said, adding there is ``plenty of time to turn things around'' before Republican lawmakers face re-election in 2006.